40-55hp CUT or Utility Tractor for 20 acre horse farm in Michigan

[Z-Michigan]

Well, I'll be the odd man out. It's easy to spend other people's money, but I still like to be practical. I don't think you need over 40HP unless you're really determined to bale your own hay.

I've got 20 acres- 10 in hay and 10 "pasture". The hay is cut & baled on "halves" with a local rancher. IMO, that's the only way to go. No need for me to have expensive equipment for such a small plot and no worries about maintenance, taxes and the other headaches that come with that equipment plus having it sit mostly un-used during the year.

In the meantime, I'm using my little CUT to renovate the 'pasture' to get it into hay production. I run unloaded R4s to cut down on soil compaction and have no problems pulling a 6' cutter. Obviously the tractor will pull a harrow and it can handle round bales with no problems- just have to go slow.

Of course you know there are blades (box, straight, etc) for CUTs as well as post hole diggers, so those aren't an issue either.

While I have the brand you don't really prefer, the rancher who bales my place does all of your tasks plus a whole lot more with a TC35.

As always, you should buy what you want- it's your money!

I appreciate the candid advice. I don't want to make an error either big or small, if I can help it, and I can find other uses for $$$ if it doesn't need to be put into the tractor. I think the loader work, other than round bales, could be done with a smaller tractor, just at a slower pace. That might be ok since the dirt and rock moving is mostly a one-time thing.

I'd like you to explain details of what size round bales you're using, how you move them, if you have any problems, what ballast you use, etc. It seems like the round bale issue is the one item that is always driving me to bigger sized tractors. A big problem is that I don't know what size round bales are typically made/used/sold around here, so I don't know how much capacity we really need. It seems like an L4400, TC35 or similar could handle 600lb bales far more easily than 1200lb bales. I also have been generally warned by people that round bales are a big tractor type job. So I really appreciate all the details you can give me on your round bale handling.

Lastly, I have no real interest in buying hay equipment and baling hay myself. I initially did until I found out the cost of the equipment, which alone wipes out my interest. Then I found out the skill level required to judge when to cut/rake/bale, and the equipment maintenance required, and I can definitely say I don't plan to try it any time soon. Around here we don't seem to have the option of sharing our hay crop for free baling, but we should be able to get a farmer to do the work at a per-bale price that will be somewhat less than buying the hay from elsewhere. Though as I go further on I am starting to wonder if we wouldn't be better off with even more pasture, trying to get the horses to eat grass 8-10 months of the year (assuming our mild winters are a trend) and only buying a modest amount of hay.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Impressive post. But I would advise you to do a little more thinking about your tractor needs.

For example, I don't think you want to run any type of 40+hp tractor on your lawn areas. You minimize lawn damage by using small, lightweight equipment. Kubota has many small CUTs for that type of work.

You're probably better off with two tractors. One under 30hp and one in the 50-60hp range. My recommendation is a new 30-40hp CUT with FEL and mid mounted mower and a pre-owned utility tractor the 50-60 hp range for field work.

Not sure how to take the lawn comment. I don't intend to use the tractor for routine mowing of the "nice" lawn close to the house, barn and driveway. We have a riding mower and two push mowers for those tasks (two of the three were inherited, in case you wonder why so many!). I also will be minimizing tractor time on the lawn by the house, to minimize damage to the lawn and avoid damage to various underground pipes. OTOH I would be using the tractor as the primary or sole mowing machine for pastures and the perimeter of the property, and I've seen a wide range of views on what hp is needed for a 6' brushhog (and no views on what hp is needed if I instead look at a 6' finish mower). Some of those views have indicated 40+ hp is a necessity; others don't. I don't know which to follow.

I should also note that my views are colored a bit because I don't like the feel of the JD and NH offerings in the true CUT category, and the Kubota dealer is out of the L30 series except for the L5130 (HST only) and L3130 (he only has HST in stock and I think this is too low on hp even if I follow the advice saying 40 is more than enough). He also doesn't know when he'll be getting the L40 series in. If he had the L4330 or L4630 in stock I'd be looking at those.

As for two tractors, that sounds like a great idea, but I don't think it's financially viable (around here used tractors less than 30 years old seem to sell at nearly the new prices, and I have no interest in something ancient without ROPS or an independent PTO) nor is my wife likely to concur even if I did want to pursue that route.

Please don't take this as rejecting your advice, because I am really looking for all views and hoping I'm not just jumping on the horsepower bandwagon.

 

[davemhughes]

Just went through the hunt for just the right size and features in a tractor for our 15ac place. For me at first I thought I bought a little small but now I think I got it right. I bought a 41hp SAME and it has 151 hours on it already and have worked it very hard blading, using the FEL daily, brush hogging w/7ft heavy duty cutter. Really after doing my research before deciding I found there are lots of good tractors out there and very few that should be avoided. Money and features are really the factor to consider. All the 40-55hp tractors will do the job you want it to.

 

[NoMo]

I'd like you to explain details of what size round bales you're using, how you move them, if you have any problems, what ballast you use, etc.

Without a doubt, a larger tractor is better at handling the larger loads.

With the CUT, stab a bale (~1000 lbs) on the 3-pt spear then grab one with the front spear. Go slow and keep the bales low to the ground. If you find that you need to move a single bale and drop it in a feeder or load it onto a truck/trailer, then you'll need something for rear ballast.

As for the hay itself, most "horse hay" around here is done in small squares while cattle hay is large round bales. You might research your area to see if it's the same... it could eliminate your worry about having to lift the round ones!

 

[BleedGreen]

Hello "Z"

First of all, let me say that you are doing a great job preparing for such a major purchase... I have been selling Deere equipment for 15 yrs or so and I wish more of my customers would do the same kind of prep work as you! Obviously from my experience (and screen name ) I am "slightly" biased towards Deere - but don't get me wrong, Kubota makes a very good product, and I don't think you could go wrong with either green or orange. That being said, I wanted to throw out a few comments and specifications for you, if you don't mind...

Kubota MX5000DT (FWD): this seems to be about the right size, with plenty of hp and adequate FEL strength (LA852) for our purposes. I've driven the 2wd version and thought it was ok, but pretty basic. I have a quote of $23,300 with FEL and quick-attach from the local dealer.

Kubota M5040: this is probably a bit bigger than we need, but doesn't cost much more than the MX5000 (quote of $25,728 with FEL) and seems to be considerably fancier in good ways. I'm particularly noting that the base price includes a skid-steer type quick-attach on the loader and one rear remote valve, along with some built in features in the hitch and drivetrain systems. This would be my preference, but the price difference would pay for two implements for the MX5000.

John Deere 4120/4320/4520: these seem to have the power and FEL capacity but are priced a bit higher (quote of $25,000 for the 4120, which I'm not sure has enough hp; seems to jump about $1800 for each hp increment) and I'm put off by their rather short wheelbase (71.5") when compared to their weight and hp. I am leaning against a JD based on price and short wheelbase, but I haven't ruled it out. (I think the JD 5105 is too big and too pricey for my needs.)

I personally think you should take another look at the Deere 5105. I guess I don't understand why you feel that it is "too big" in comparison to the Kubotas (and the 71.5" wheelbase on the 4x20 series is short) for your needs:

Wheelbase:
MX5000 - 71.1"
5105 - 76.8"
M5040 - 80.7"

Shipping Weight:
MX5000 - 3,560 lbs
5105 - 4,275 lbs
M5040 - 3,968 lbs.

Engine / PTO H.P.@ rated speed:
MX5000 - 52.2 / 44.0 @ 2,700 rpm
5105 - 50.0 / 45.0 @ 2,300 rpm
M5040 - 50.5 / 45.0 @ 2,600 rpm

Hitch Lift Capacity @ 24" behind Lift Point:
MX5000 - 2,315 lbs.
5105 - 4,884 lbs.
M5040 - 3,307 lbs.

Hydraulic Pump Rated Output:
MX5000 - 14.0 gpm
5105 - 18.1 gpm
M5040 - 17.1 gpm

Final Drive:
MX5000 - Spur Gear
5105 - Planetary
M5040 - Bevel Gear

Loader Max Lift Height / Capacity (at pivot pin):
LA582 on MX5000 - 9.1' / 2,470
522 on 5105 - 9.5' / 2,216 lbs
LA1153 on M5040 - 9.7' / 2,326 lbs

The MX5000 is slightly shorter than the ("rather short") 4x20 CUTs, and the M5040 is longer than the ("too big") 5105. The Deere has a significant advantage when it comes to weight. Most industry figures point to around $1 per pound for additional ballast - to equal out all three tractors, it would cost an additional $715.00 for the MX5000, or $307.00 for the M5040. Horsepower ratings are pretty much identical, but note that the 5105 is running at a significantly lower engine speed. It is also interesting to note that Deere's numbers come from Nebraska Tractor Testing (OECD 1838) while Kubota's are Factory Observed. As you can see, the 5105 has a much higher 3PH rating as well as increased hydraulic output. In regards to the loaders, I don't prefer to look at max capacity at the pivot pins, but it was the only spec that all three models shared. Deere also rates this Tractor / Loader combo at 800mm in front of the pivot pin, while Kubota rates the LA583 at bucket center and the LA1153 at the "power position". As far as pricing goes, you should be able to get a brand new 5105 with 522 FEL for around $27,300.00 to $27,800.00 depending on the dealer in your area.

Anyway, thanks for reading... I have a tendency to be long-winded, so I appreciate you taking the time to read it all. I hope I was of some help to you either way! Thanks!!!

 

[EquipmentUser]

If you have a Cat dealer nearby you may want to take a look at Challenger. It's the same line of equipment as Massey Ferguson.

 

[wolc123]

My needs were very similar to yours when I purchased a CUT just over a year ago. I looked at Kubota GL 4330, NH TD40 and JD 4120. The JD had the best specs (lift capacity, etc), and when a quick attach loader bucket was added to the others (standard on the JD), the JD was actually tied for cheapest with the NH. You should be able to get a JD 4120 powerreverser with 400X loader and R1 tires (rears loaded) for around $23,000 and I believe this is the best tractor for your jobs. I use mine on a 6ft brushhog and it has got a lot more power than necessary. I would only reccomend stepping up to a 4320 or larger if you decide to get a hydro (less efficient drive), or a cab (to handle the A/C load). Note that the 4120 gives you the same hydraulic lift capacity as the 4720 for many thousand less $. None of the tasks you list will benifit from that extra HP, certainly not a 6 ft brush-hog.

 

[BarryinMN]

Hello "Z"
First of all, let me say that you are doing a great job preparing for such a major purchase... I have been selling Deere equipment for 15 yrs or so and I wish more of my customers would do the same kind of prep work as you! Obviously from my experience (and screen name ) I am "slightly" biased towards Deere - but don't get me wrong, Kubota makes a very good product, and I don't think you could go wrong with either green or orange.

Bleed is making sense. My experience was with 35 years of weekend "farming" using a '48 JD model A. Spent about 2 years kicking the tires looking at newer-safer tractors. I did buy some other things first such as a diesel lawn mower with a cat 0 hitch and a box blade and 6' rake to maintain my road. It is short quick and more maneuverable than a cut or subcut - no roll bar so no low branch clearance issues either.

With the tractor specwise I settled on a JD5105 as the perfect tractor until I drove one on slopes. Way too small & light for my mud bogs & sharp slopes. Remember to add the weight of what it's carrying or pulling to the equation.

I ended up jumping to a JD 6000 or JD 5x2x series. Now the cash expense was giving me heartburn because there was no payback on the horizon.

Found a local Zetor dealer who had a new heavy cabbed 55 PTO MFWD with loader for a little more than the price of the open 5105. Now 3 years old and 214 hours. A happy camper.

If you will be mowing fencelines, a 8-10' bush hog will cut a foot or 2 wider than the rear wheel tracks making it easier.

 

[Mike120]

Wow, I'm really impressed with all the good advice I'm getting here. Thanks!

Mike - sounds like you know horses. Good point on the 3pt spreader. How much do those cost? We definitely will need to overseed but were planning to use our walk-behind spreader. That could get old if we're doing 4+ acres, I suppose. Not sure how much fertilizer we will be using. We want the horses to eat as much grass as possible for their health and so we don't have to use tons of hay (literally). We actually keep the horses outside 24/7 except when there is really severe weather (they do have a run-in shed in their pasture, so don't feel sorry for them). I had talked with my wife about disking the pastures post-winter but she was very against the idea, not wanting to kill what grass is growing. I doubt she'll be much more in favor of a tiller since it would even more thoroughly kill the existing grass. I would welcome comments though since I have no experience managing pastures. (I may also start a thread in the projects forum on this.)

The horses are unfortunately pasture pets right now, but my wife has experience training horses and whenever she has free time (?) she will be working on both of them. We have a 60x120 outdoor arena that the prior owners put in; it has a sand footing with no grass growing. My wife also wants a round pen somewhere - not sure what we're going to do on that.

Tell me more about finish mower vs. brush hog. Can a finish mower cut grass that's up to 2-3 feet tall? As I noted, the mowing won't likely include trees of any size, but the grass and weeds could be pretty tall.

Scott, the MF tractors look nice, but I don't have a dealer close enough for me to comfortable buying one. I would also be looking seriously at Kioti if their dealer was closer to me. (Actually, with Kioti dealer about 35 miles away, I'm debating whether to still look at them.)

Grass will grow naturally but if you want to use it for feed you usually need to give it some help.

You should consider fencing off some paddocks so that you can rotate your horses. Mine are all around 100’ X 250’ and I limit each one to 2 horses, (I’ve got 23) the mares are in bigger pastures. I’ve always got a few that are empty. That’s when I fertilize, adjust the ph and over seed. If you use granular fertilizer you need to keep the horses off it until it rains otherwise they’ll usually colic. I apply liquid lime with a 3pt sprayer if I need to adjust the ph…it’s faster. I’ll also go in and till any bare areas before I over seed. The grass is usually 9-10” high when I reintroduce horses in about 6 weeks. What all I need to do to a resting paddock depends on the horses that were in there, some are easier on the ground than others. Spreaders run about $3-400 and a 55 gal 3pt sprayer goes for about $450. You shouldn’t need anything bigger.

A chain harrow only breaks up the manure piles. Many times horses will decide that they like a spot, usually in a corner that’s hard to get to with a drag, and you get a buildup there. After a while grass won’t grow. Tilling works it into the soil and with fertilizer, you can then get the grass back. Tillers are also great for smoothing out the ruts made by tractors on real wet ground.

I’ve really never tried to cut tall grass with my finish mower I never let it get very high. I don’t see why not though. The main difference in a finish mower is that there are more blades, a much higher blade speed, and a cleaner distribution of the cuttings. Regular mowing, fertilizer, and ph management is cheaper weed control than chemicals. I use 2,4,D in my hay fields but I rarely need it in my paddocks.

Round pens are generally for teaching horses good manners. We start them in a round pen before we move to a lunge line before we move to the arena. Make sure you get at least a 60’ one. Depending on your horses through, you may not need one.

Good luck!

Mike

 

[Mike120]

Just a quick point on hay....I would never give horses round bales. It's too easy for it to get moldy in the field and you end up with colic. Cattle can eat rounds and pretty much anything else because of their multiple stomachs, horses only have one and it's pretty sensitive. Stick with the square bales and you don't need a spike.