5 years ago today

[Tdog]

Geez - - guess what folks. Some people who stayed in New Orleans were not the most upstanding model citizens, but many more were very poor. Most of these people do not have a car or truck, & if they did, they may not have had money for a tank of gas [if they could find it by the time the mandatory evacuation order was given]. When they go to work or shopping, they take the bus or walk. If you are going to order people to leave who do not have the means to evacuate, then you need to provide an alternative. It was really really sad that all those RTA busses & school busses sat in their barns & flooded. The city & state can do better.
I did not intend this discussion to turn this way, AGAIN.

BTW, most of the Katrina coverage is past by now. The piece Brian Williams did was OK, but dealt mostly with New Orleans, the Superdome, the Convention Center, & the lower 9th ward. Almost no mention of Mississippi which had nothing left to rebuild or St. Bernard [95% under water]. The best documentary I saw was on the National Geographic Channel, called 'Witness Katrina'. They used lots of new-to-me footage shot by home video. I think it might be on again tomorrow sometime.

Jack

 

[ToadHill]

I just keep thinking of all the tax $$$'s that have been spent rebuilding places that in any other situation the government would tell us were wetlands. IT would be a violation of many laws to do any building or drainage on them.

 

[Lineman North Florida]

I went and worked to restore power after the storm, not in New Orleans but in Lafayette, Kaplin, Erath, Abbeyville and many more small towns in Louisiana and was very impressed by the way that the people in those towns and rural areas worked to get things cleaned up and put their lives back together, I did'nt see one person in front of a tv camera screaming where is the government like you did in New Orleans, they were working on putting their homes and lives back together. There were those who needed help such as nursing homes and old people who could not do for themselves and yes I do believe more should have been done for those, but there is entirely to many grown people who have never had to accept responsibility for themselves,they thrive off of welfare,government housing,free public transportation and the list goes on and on, it comes as no suprise that many sat back and waited for someone else to step in and take care of them as they have their whole lives, this time with disasterous consequences.

 

[tallyho8]

Just remember, the billions of dollars the gov't is spending to rebuild the coast is but a small amount of the billions of dollars that it has received from the sales of oil leases off the coast that have rigs that are built, maintained and supplied by businesses and people who must live by the coast in order to do so. Just money that came from this region and is being returned to it.

Sorry Tdog, it was 100% of the homes in St Bernard Parish that flooded, not 95%.

I know many of you are not happy about some of the circumstances surrounding the devastation and attempted rebuilding of the coast but this was one of the largest calamities America ever had to endure and no matter what happened or how it was handled, there was no way that everyone would have been satisfied with the outcome.

I could tell you many stories that would shock you into reality and possibly change your perception of the situation but this thread would immediately be locked and deleted.

Jack, once again I am sorry that we have turned your thread into a debate and I ought to have the sense to know that there is no way that I could describe the situation to someone who lives in a different world and has never witnessed such a tragedy first hand. The news media did such a superb job of showing all the lawlessness and disgusting antics of some that many who only witnessed it on TV believe they saw the whole story and that no one on the coast is worth saving.

I am the first one to say that I am disgraced that none of the criminals who committed such vile acts during this tragedy were ever prosecuted and that the only major prosecutions brought forth so far have been against many of our first responders who risked their lives to stay and help others.

 

[nap61]

Something to remember is that the destruction of New Orleans was not a natural disaster. It was man made. The cause was the negligence/fraud/corruption in building and maintaining the leeves (and the failure to maintain the natural wetlands). Government, local, state and federal, has never taken responsibility. Katrina did not strike New Orleans. It hit well below N.O. (abt 70 miles) then went on to Mississippi. It wasn't until the storm was almost pass N.O. that the storm surge topped and crushed the leeves, flooding the city from several directions. If the leeves had held, N.O. would have had relatively minor wind damage. I know, I had about 20% roof damage and other minor damage. It was the 5+ft of water on the first floor that did me in. And I was lucky. Some had 5+ft in their ATTIC.
The road home program was a joke. It, like most government action, rewarded bad behavior. It gave money to those who, like the ones who failed to leave, had the attitude that they did not have to take personal responsibility for their own safety and well being, but would let bad things happen and then cry to the government (or churches, or charities) for help - the victim mentality.
Another miscarriage was the clean-up program. "Brother-in-Law" got that money. The Feds spent HUGE sums of money and most of it went into a very few pockets.
We are now dealing with a lot of Monday morning quaterbacking with respect to the N.O. police dept. Things happened in the days after the storm that probably should not have occured. And, maybe there should be some civil lawsuits winding through the courts. But,the Feds have decided to charge some good police officers with criminal offenses. It was a war zone in N.O. It is easy to say how you would have acted. But unless you were there, don't second guess. I came back into the city about ten days after the storm. There was still water in many places. I couldn't get to my house in N.O. East, but checked on some houses for friends and relatives. I had a .45 on my hip and a shotgun in the truck. N.O. looked and felt like one of the mid-east cities after a battle.
Sorry if I rambled, but I only wrote the short version.

Norm

 

[Big Bri]

Something to remember is that the destruction of New Orleans was not a natural disaster. It was man made. The cause was the negligence/fraud/corruption in building and maintaining the leeves (and the failure to maintain the natural wetlands). Government, local, state and federal, has never taken responsibility. Katrina did not strike New Orleans. It hit well below N.O. (abt 70 miles) then went on to Mississippi. It wasn't until the storm was almost pass N.O. that the storm surge topped and crushed the leeves, flooding the city from several directions. If the leeves had held, N.O. would have had relatively minor wind damage. I know, I had about 20% roof damage and other minor damage. It was the 5+ft of water on the first floor that did me in. And I was lucky. Some had 5+ft in their ATTIC.
The road home program was a joke. It, like most government action, rewarded bad behavior. It gave money to those who, like the ones who failed to leave, had the attitude that they did not have to take personal responsibility for their own safety and well being, but would let bad things happen and then cry to the government (or churches, or charities) for help - the victim mentality.
Another miscarriage was the clean-up program. "Brother-in-Law" got that money. The Feds spent HUGE sums of money and most of it went into a very few pockets.
We are now dealing with a lot of Monday morning quaterbacking with respect to the N.O. police dept. Things happened in the days after the storm that probably should not have occured. And, maybe there should be some civil lawsuits winding through the courts. But,the Feds have decided to charge some good police officers with criminal offenses. It was a war zone in N.O. It is easy to say how you would have acted. But unless you were there, don't second guess. I came back into the city about ten days after the storm. There was still water in many places. I couldn't get to my house in N.O. East, but checked on some houses for friends and relatives. I had a .45 on my hip and a shotgun in the truck. N.O. looked and felt like one of the mid-east cities after a battle.
Sorry if I rambled, but I only wrote the short version.

Norm

Norm i'm sorry for your loss! and hope your life is back to normal now.

i really don't think it is the governments fault, they can't protect us from everything. If you choose to live in a bowl you got to expect to fill sometime. The levees were only designed for a cat 3 storm, even if it was designed for a cat 5 you still have risk living in a bowl. If you choose to live in a bowl get insurance! ! ! Why does the world think the government should pay for the devastation. If you had a house fire and didn't have insurance should the gov step in? If you have an car accident with no insurance should the government step in? If you fall of your tractor and break a leg should the government step in if you don't have insurance?
Where is it going to stop, will the feds bail out every ice storm, earth quake, river flood, tornado, hail storm, or drought.

I have a job, I buy insurance. would i rather spend the $400 health ins, $200 a month auto, $150 month home owners inc. on something else. . .Heck that $750 a month would buy me a nice new truck or bigger tractor but i do my responsibility and protect my self and my family.

I guess i come across and an @$$ but have no tolerance for people milking the system.

 

[nap61]

Bri,
Thanks. I am almost finished building my new home North of Lake Pontchartrain. I took so long because I had to sue my insurance co. I still have the N.O. house up for sale if anyone wants a nice fixer upper.
I agree with you. The money went to those who didn't get insurance and were not responsible. The one who did what was necessary to protect themselves, their families, and property with insurance (me included) got ZIP.
However, the leeves were designed improperly (L walls instead of T walls), were negligently constructed (wrong datum used so that they were too low and sheet pilings not driven to spec), and were not maintained by local authorities.

Norm

 

[Big Bri]

Bri,
Thanks. I am almost finished building my new home North of Lake Pontchartrain. I took so long because I had to sue my insurance co. I still have the N.O. house up for sale if anyone wants a nice fixer upper.
I agree with you. The money went to those who didn't get insurance and were not responsible. The one who did what was necessary to protect themselves, their families, and property with insurance (me included) got ZIP.
However, the leeves were designed improperly (L walls instead of T walls), were negligently constructed (wrong datum used so that they were too low and sheet pilings not driven to spec), and were not maintained by local authorities.

Norm

Norm i too had problems with my insurance. i got lucky with my house only 1 broken window and a couple pieces of siding missing (didn't make a claim)
I did loose one of my stores though. The winds took off the entire roof, all that was left were the walls and a few rafters. Every thing in the store got wet. With in 2 days all the acoustic guitars had split, all the drum's were becoming unraveled, all the books and sheet music gone, every thing electronic shot. Insurance company sold off all the inventory as "scrap" and then under paid us by 45k. Took a lot of phone calls from myself and one form a lawyer before they paid the claim. this was the first claim i had ever made car, house, or business scene i started buying insurance.

 

[tallyho8]

The argument for many who lived in St Bernard and in the lower ninth ward was that many of their homes were built above sea level and relatively safe from hurricanes until the Feds constructed a huge poorly designed canal (MRGO) against their wishes and protests, merely as a pork barrel project, and it directed the hurricane storm surge 50 miles from the gulf onto their property.

A rather poor analogy of that would be if the Feds decided to construct a poorly designed dam right up the creek from your home, against your wishes, and it broke and washed away your home, would you expect them to pay for the damage they caused while folks hundreds of miles away criticized you for not getting flood insurance.

Or if a car owned by a federal agency and driven by federal workers ran into your parked car and destroyed it, should they pay for it?

Or if that same car ran into your home and burned it down should they pay for it?

Or if that car runs into your tractor in your yard and you break your leg, should they pay for it?

Well, I believe that if the feds do something stupid, against your wishes, that causes an earthquake, ice storm, river flood, tornado or drought, then they should be held accountable for it.

 

[nap61]

Tallyho,
I remember when I was younger, they were planning MRGO (Mississippi River Gulf Outlet). I can still recall Blackie Campo, an oldtime dock owner and leader in the fishing community, railing on TV about what would happen if they build it. Later, when I had my boat and started fishing in the Shell Beach area, I realized how prophetic he was. When they built MRGO, the channel markers were on posts on land. By the time I started fishing there, most of the shoreline was 1 to 3 blocks from the marker posts. We would be in one of the back bayous and when a large ship passed in MRGO, the water would be sucked out and our boat would hit bottom before the water came back. The water from MRGO was what flooded my house in N.O. East. MRGO was like a pipeline into N.O.

Norm

PS
When you launched at Blackie's and went to Lake Borgne, You would ride parallel to the road that used to go to and along Lake Borgne that was cut by MRGO. The lake had many camps that were eventually abandoned because the only way to get to them was by water.

Norm