540rpm Snowblower at 1100rpm

[Hysyde]

Hi all,

I've been looking everywhere to come up with a solution for snow removal with my old Kubota F2100 4wd front-mount mower. I did find a Kubota B2551 blower at my local dealer set up specifically for a F2100 with the 2 point hitch and appropriate PTO. However it is in extremely rough shape (metal wise... mechanically seems OK)and has hydraulic chute rotation and my tractor does not have a front remote (and the valve kit is $700). If it was cheap I would buy it and add electric rotation but they want $1200 and won't budge given the value of these blower in parts alone.

I then found a Ber-Vac B51 in the local classifieds that looks to be in really good shape, has electric rotation, and is the EXACT same blower as the Kubota except for one thing: It does not have the PTO reduction drive (or the 2pt. hitch but that's easy enough to make).

Given that the (low speed) PTO output speed on my F2100 is 1100 rpm, would it be unwise to try and run this blower as is, assuming it's a 540rpm blower since it's exact brethren has a reduction drive?

Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Lunk]

Not a lot of experience with PTO-run EQ, but I'd think that there'd be a real risk of something coming apart if you run it at twice the rated operating speed.

Maybe you'll find that it's a 1000 RPM unit, if you're lucky...

 

[Hysyde]

I'm assuming it's 540rpm because the Kubota B2551 appears to be the exact same blower but with a reduction drive. I can't find any info on the older Ber-vacs to verify. I'm trying to get the dealer to part out the Kubota blower and buy the mount and reduction drive....

 

[PILOON]

I'd suggest that rule of thumb is rear blowers are 540 RPM and most if not all front are 1000 or better.
Generally front blowers are coupled to crankshaft output hence 1000 or better rpm.
Another thing that is common is rotation. Fronts generally rotate opposite to rear blowers and conversion is just not practical.

I have seen rear blowers front mounted but usually that involves a rear driven reverser box and long shaft that drives the front mounted standard rear blower.
Rather complicated setup with more parts to wear out.

 

[Hysyde]

I'd suggest that rule of thumb is rear blowers are 540 RPM and most if not all front are 1000 or better.
Generally front blowers are coupled to crankshaft output hence 1000 or better rpm.
Another thing that is common is rotation. Fronts generally rotate opposite to rear blowers and conversion is just not practical.

I have seen rear blowers front mounted but usually that involves a rear driven reverser box and long shaft that drives the front mounted standard rear blower.
Rather complicated setup with more parts to wear out.

While I believe that is generally true, I think with tractors like F-series Kubotas, the PTO turns the same way as a normal, rear PTO since they are more or less tractors with the seat turned around (at least the early F2100/2400s I think).

Also, I downloaded the B2551 parts manual from messicks. It shows multiple hitch/drive options so it was a blower meant for either end, with the reduction drive for 1000 (or in this case) 1100rpm use.

I know I've basically answered my own questions, but I'm trying to think of options. Are most 1000rpm blowers direct drive to the fan and everything built to run at those speeds or do most incorporate some kind of reduction? It if is designed for 540rpm, how fast would it grenade running at 1000?

Pics of the respective blowers.






Reduction drive

 

[PILOON]

My tractor has 3 PTO speeds, 500 750 and 1000 rpm.
I have the Bervac blower (red in trailer) and tried it at all RPM's
At 500 it is rather pathetic, works just fine at the 7xx rpms but at the 1000 setting you know that the life span is short.

The struts that support the fan blades on the bervacs need to be beefed up as they rust away and collapse.

I run a 60" Bervac on a 20hp (less PTOhp) manual geared tractor so guess I am close to expert in that narrow field application.
And that in snowy Quebec. (120-150" annually mixed bag of snow) and about 25-30 events annually.

The device (Messick reduction drive) is just that. Reduction! and will not reverse for front mounting a rear blower.

 

[Hysyde]

My tractor has 3 PTO speeds, 500 750 and 1000 rpm.
I have the Bervac blower (red in trailer) and tried it at all RPM's
At 500 it is rather pathetic, works just fine at the 7xx rpms but at the 1000 setting you know that the life span is short.

The struts that support the fan blades on the bervacs need to be beefed up as they rust away and collapse.

I run a 60" Bervac on a 20hp (less PTOhp) manual geared tractor so guess I am close to expert in that narrow field application.
And that in snowy Quebec. (120-150" annually mixed bag of snow) and about 25-30 events annually.

The device (Messick reduction drive) is just that. Reduction! and will not reverse for front mounting a rear blower.

Messicks is a parts store. They just put their name on the manual. That is the Kubota parts manual for the blower, and the reduction drive is just one of several drive/attachment configurations for that blower.

To clarify, the "front" PTO on an F series Kubota turns the same way as a regular rear tractor PTO as they are basically normal tractors flipped around. A normal rotation rear blower will work.... however I'm thinking unless it's designed for 1000rpm, it wouldn't be wise to run.

I'm having a hard time getting a reasonably priced blower for this tractor. I gave up on finding one with the appropriate hitch (I will make one). Only commercial style blowers were ever made for these tractors and they don't come cheap, even when they are old and beat up.

 

[Dave M7040]

The blower on the trailer with the faded paint has as part of its design sprockets and chains to alter pto speed.
The basic blower frame is being used on both front and rear of tractors.
By playing with sprocket sizes you can change to get whatever speed you need for little cost.
With a little creativity with the sprockets you could even change the rotation.

Look carefully and see how the pto direction is revered by how the chain goes over the low middle sprocket. The same could be done on the blower.

Dave M7040

 

[pmsmechanic]

I have a friend that runs a 540 rpm three point hitch snow blower at 1000 rpm. He's done it for years. His reasoning is that it throws the snow so much better. I rebuilt an IHC 80. The pto shaft had been converted to 1000 rpm. I left it that way and it's still going.

I think you would easily be able to run that snow blower at a higher speed. If it feels and sounds like it's going to blow apart then pull back on the throttle. You aren't going to loose a lot of power by slowing down to 3/4 throttle.

 

[Dave M7040]

Compare these two photos posted earlier.

One has the chain drive pto speed reduction system and the bright red one does not.

Chain drives can be added or taken off these blowers easily.

Dave M7040