Traction A little humbled after what happened today.

[SGStriglos]

Just curious . . When pulling the trailer downhill Instead of having the trailer behind you . . ever consider a front mount hitch point? Then you could steer the trailer instead of pulling it.

I've just found that pulling a trailer down hills makes me the slave to the direction the trailer wants to go. But when going downhill . . . if I'm front mount steering it . . I become more of the boss ("pulling" a trailer downhill . . the trailer wants to push your rear up in the air).

To be honest no I haven't. I used to work at a boat dealership in college and pushed boats around a lot with forks...Yes it was a heck of a lot easier. They had a jeep with the hitch on the front also.
But in my application it never occurred to me. 3-Point has the ball on the rear and hydraulics on the rear for dumping; and then bucket is up front to lower in an emergency. Just because it is the way I have always done and the way everyone else does it is not the correct answer.
I will give that some serious thought.....it would teach my son the nuances of trailer backing a lot quicker and with less frustration. Thank you!

 

[Coyote machine]

I'm not an expert on trailer towing on tractors, BUT the concept I'm aware of is that the tractor is meant and designed to pull loads from the drawbar at the rear and nowhere else. It is the lowest center of gravity, and provides the most control, and stability from things like rollovers, etc.

What I could see going wrong from towing backwards is this: you're pulling a load backwards from a FEL ball mount on wet grass on a steep hill. The tractor, while in 4wd starts to slide the front wheels to the right down the hill. The tractor/loader and trailer follow the front wheels, as the OP looses control of the steering and as the trailer pushes further and faster and harder on the FEL, the tractor reaches it's tipping point as it continues to slide sideways. Trailer breaks free from trailer ball, tractor continues to move to rollover position on hill and then does. Complete rollover in milliseconds, loss of life probable or imminent, at best a severely hurt OP and ruined equipment, as a result of OP's lack of proper education as to what and when and how rollover's occur.

I could be wrong, but that's the wrong question: what IF I'm right is the thing to research....
JMHO

 

[bumperm]

I have a receiver hitch on my front loader. Convenient and allows push maneuvering a trailer with a degree of finesse and precision that would be difficult to achieve while backing with a tow vehicle. If a loss of traction puts equipment or people in harm's way, then there was inadequate traction to begin with for this sort of operation. The emergency response to loss of control is to drop the front loader and apply brakes.

When pushing a trailer with a FEL mounted hitch, I'm mindful when turning, especially on hills, on soft ground, or with a loaded trailer, as this can apply side loads to the FEL, something it's not designed to take a whole lot of.

As to the 2WD 4WD loader thing, with my first Kubota, a B2150 HST in '88, I had a loader full of pea gravel and as I recall, loaded tires but no box on the back. Brain disengaged, I was headed down a modest dry grassy hill in 2WD and backed off the HST pedal to slow down. That had no effect at all as the tractor continued to aceclerate. Rapidly approaching tree line ahead, braking had no effect either. Still accelerating, I finally thought to drop the bucket and the tractor slid to a stop a few feet from the trees. It only came to be afterwards, once my heart slowed down some, you gotta be in 4WD to have braking on all wheels.

 

[AxleHub]

I'm not an expert on trailer towing on tractors, BUT the concept I'm aware of is that the tractor is meant and designed to pull loads from the drawbar at the rear and nowhere else. It is the lowest center of gravity, and provides the most control, and stability from things like rollovers, etc.

What I could see going wrong from towing backwards is this: you're pulling a load backwards from a FEL ball mount on wet grass on a steep hill. The tractor, while in 4wd starts to slide the front wheels to the right down the hill. The tractor/loader and trailer follow the front wheels, as the OP looses control of the steering and as the trailer pushes further and faster and harder on the FEL, the tractor reaches it's tipping point as it continues to slide sideways. Trailer breaks free from trailer ball, tractor continues to move to rollover position on hill and then does. Complete rollover in milliseconds, loss of life probable or imminent, at best a severely hurt OP and ruined equipment, as a result of OP's lack of proper education as to what and when and how rollover's occur.

I could be wrong, but that's the wrong question: what IF I'm right is the thing to research....
JMHO

Greetings coyote. I think you and I are visioning much different activities. My suggestion was that the trailer could be "pushed" down the hill toward the water by being attached to a hitch ball on the fel or front frame guard. If the trailer is leading instead of following, it can't be trying to push the rear end up in the air as it does if being pulled down the hill. It also can't be trying to turn the back end . . because gravity is keeping it straight in its path to the water down the hill.

In effect, the tractor is always in control because gravity is always keeping the trailer straight. Now if the hill is so steep and grass so slippery that the 4wd can't keep the whole thing from losing traction . . It is still much safer than if that trailer was pushing the tractor from the rear and forcing rear wheels up off the grass. As well as you can still steer the trailer in my idea.

At some point any situation is uncontrollable . . which is when you don't go down that hill at all till conditions improve. However in this particular scenario pushing the trailer down the hill is the last situation to lose control compared to pulling it down the hill. Jmho.

 

[OvRnOuT]

Greetings. My 2 week old Massey GC1715 sub compact has had to dodge the rain drops too often in its 2 week introduction. A few mowings and little chance to use the fel so far. So today was a better weather day . .and after a couple hours of my mmm doing its part with the grass . . I thought I'd do some testing with the fel attached.

Our yard of 1.5 acres varies from some flat to 50+% of it being hills from 10 to 25 degrees . . All grass mostly blue grass. Yards all cut and done. I add the fel on and with the mmm running I'm going up and down hills of varying steepness and gear choices. All of a sudden as im going down the steepest hill . . I start gaining momentum even with my foot off the hydro pedal. Faster and faster I'm going till I level off in the open culvert at the base.

What the heck . . I'm thinking . . did my hydro fail me and fail to slow and stop my progress ??? No. And I'd been up and down this hill several times during the day with no problem.

So what was the rather sudden uncontrolled speed increase? I had the fel on remember . . but I didn't have it in 4wd. So even with my considerable weight and loaded tires . . the fel reduced the rear tire contact pressure to the ground. No not off the ground . . Just less weight than normal. So in 2wd the hydro only controls the rear wheels . . So unknown to me . . I was sliding forward down the hill.

Once I figured out what likely happened . .I fearlessly put it in 4wd and tested the same run again . . But this time the hydro had a chance to hold back AND front axles . . and I emerged safe, triumphant, a little humbled, and a little smarter

Thank you for sharing and the explanation. Same thing happened to me on day 1. It was surprising to say the least.

 

[FTG-05]

Had that happen to me on my steep hill - one time. I call it "The 2 inch Ride". That's because I sucked up two inches of seat cushion before I could get it back under control!

Nowaday's I check about 3-4 times that I'm in 4WD before I head down the hill.

 

[AxleHub]

Well I did another dumb thing today and tomorrow I'll fix it.

Massey GC 1700s have a great fuel tank filling location right rear fender . . . And a nice big filler hole too. Well today I took the new tractor on a trip to our other house/lot located about 1.5 miles by road from its normal home. No trailer just tractor and hard surface roads. So I filled the tank before leaving . . Headed to the other location on my first "road trip". Got to the destination and started cutting an acre+ of what used to be lawn and now its grass and lawn weeds with trees to cut around and a washboarded lawn. Not deep grass just real wasboarded.

Anyway I get done and stop to check my fuel status to see how much I'd used inthe last 2.5 hours (travel and cutting). My fuel cap was gone and some of the diesel had splashed a bit on some of the bumping. So I start walking the 1+ acre thinking allthe trimming around trees with branches probably spun it loose. Nope. Certain that I saw it in its proper place when I took a 5 minute break . . I looked in that area and afterward. Then I parked the tractor and headed home (not on the tractor) following my road trail. Nope. Went to the normal house . . and there sits the cap on the upper driveway. So tomorrow I head back over to the other location . . Siphon the tank dry . . Get my Mr. Funnel out and refill the tank (yes I could see things floating in the fuel tank that fell in while trimming).

No its not a big deal . . But darn it . . An extra hour and a half shot in the pratt because I didn't tighten the cap. Yet another learning experience lol.

P.s. I'm guessing my fuel efficiency wasn't anything to brag about either . . . Drive some spill some . . .

 

[FTG-05]

Some days you're the dog, some days you're the hydrant!