About To Drill Well - Have Some Questions

[Pumpmd]

Take your sells pitch back to your site where you can delete posts telling the truth about your product. Notice how that guy is from Texas as well.

 

[prichard]

Didn't you know this is his sales site?

 

[the old grind]

No ads on TBN, or are we just choosing sides?

The OP asked us to quit squabbling here. He's done well (pardon the pun), and IMO the 'coudla-shoulda-woulda' stuff and comments about commenters should have ended pages ago.

I'm sure quite a few of us are following without saying much. Can we bury the dead horse vs beat it, and show Pettrix some respect?

 

[Pumpmd]

All I gotta do is kick back and wait on xfaxman's pump life on this site. He has everything in place to perform maintenance and his light to see problems early. I never liked the in-well tank where you can't get to the precharge for maintenance. This is not Tony by the way if you read this.

 

[PILOON]

Re pressure switches;

My observation was that in most cases some gunk would clog the small opening (or tube) to the switch diaphragm and replacement was easiest. (be it sand, corrosion from steel fitting or plain gunk).
Besides, with labor costs being what they are, nobody will service a $25. item these days. (even if parts were available)

Inside the pressure switch cover is a diagram as to which screw sets high (cut out) and low (cut in) pressures.
Generally you need to fiddle with the other after you have re set the one as it is basically a balancing act.

An optional switch is also available, it has a small lever on the side that totally shuts down the pump should there be a massive leak up stream (like frozen pipe would cause). Re starting a pump with this option calls for holding the lever until there is a pressure build up.
This style generally shuts off when pressure is down below, like 10 PSI or so.
Saves a house flood from frozen burst plumbing.

 

[Pettrix]

My well is in and operating for some time.

I did ask Valveman to stop pushing the CSV's he sells but that is sometimes a futile request. He should pay for the "free" advertising he gets on this site.

Back to the regular scheduled programming...

 

[Valveman]

I was told by a few well installers in my area that depending on the well pump design a CSV can hurt the pump since a CSV creates backpressure. It's like driving a vehicle with the gas and brake pedal both pressed at the same time.

Using a large tank reduces the cycling. You can also use a cycle reducing valve like the CSV with a smaller tank.

If you go back and read these posts you will see that I was not the one who brought up the CSV in the first place. I am just defending it from false accusations and answering questions as they come up. For every one of you who complains about my postings I get 10 emails, phone calls, PM’s from people who appreciate me explaining what others don’t understand or won’t explain.

If the OP keeps this thread updated for 5-10 years you will find that I was right about this stuff. I have been doing this for decades and have been proven correct many, many times over the years. Some were angry at me for trying to explain it the first time. But most had the guts to call me and apologize a few years later, when they finally realized what I told them was correct.

I am not getting advertising for free, I am giving information for free.

 

[Xfaxman]

All I gotta do is kick back and wait on xfaxman's pump life on this site. He has everything in place to perform maintenance and his light to see problems early. I never liked the in-well tank where you can't get to the precharge for maintenance. This is not Tony by the way if you read this.

I was wondering.

 

[Pumpmd]

What Valveman is not telling you is that his CSV when restricting flow to 1gpm (every time it shuts off, it restricts the pump to 1gpm so you can get the 1min runtime on those small tanks), it's putting maximum head pressure back on the pump which is contributing to the downthrust load wear on the plastic impellers and why you have dragging impellers with a good motor. For stainless steel impellers, I have only tested clones to the (Grundfos) and it seems to me that the Grundfos is a better match for the CSV. On heavy Continuous Duty systems, you will usually see downthrust load wearing down the thrust bearing in a motor that doesn't restrict the flow (especially on the old pump style where the Kingsbury thrust bearing was carrying the load) or Franklin is saying no less than 5gpm on restrictions for their pumps. Franklin Aid said "Almost infinite life for the kingsbury thrust bearing because of Downthrust load. Start taking your motors and pump ends apart to break them open so you can see the downthrust load wear damage on those old pumps your getting. On my traditional systems, I can throw good used kingsbury thrust bearings at you all day to where I know for a fact it's not cycling wearing them down. A motor also has an hour meter built inside it because of the motor windings.

Kevin,

Franklin pumps have floating stage assemblies so very little down thrust is put on the motor thrust bearing. Each stage has it's own bearing area for thrust.

We see frequent premature pump failures from the use of various flow restrictors and my suspicion is that they do not open and close properly causing over circulation of water in the pump. I don't know if fluttering restrictors could be part of the problem causing a hammering of the impellers up and down in the stage assembly. Poor performance and pump shavings and debris after a year to 18 months of use is not uncommon and the problem goes away when the valves are removed from the system. I have no idea how many work properly as we only get the calls for failed systems.

I hope this helps answer your questions.

Thanks,
Bob J
Water Systems Service Engineer


From Pentair: SignaSeal staging system incorporates a harder-than-sand ceramic wear surface and a floating impeller design - which together literally pulverize sand and small debris. This proven feature reduces lock-ups, dry-runs, and abrasive wear.

Floating Stage Design is engineered to*transmit forces away from the motor bearing and through the pump housing. This reduces premature wear and misalignment.

Fully-Enclosed Shaft Bearing creates a pressure zone that prevents sand & water*from entering. Eliminates wear and misalignment.

Wear Ring forms a seal between impeller hub and suction cap*for low friction and no unwanted recirculation of water.
Corrosion resistant 300 grade stainless steel discharge for durability in aggressive water.

From Franklin: Tri-Seal floating stage system. This stage system further improves efficiency and protects against wear when pumping abrasives (sand). Tri-Seal pumps are unconditionally guaranteed against sand locking in abrasive well conditions for one full year.

Hex rubber bearing and ceramic shaft sleeve allows sand and abrasives to pass through, virtually eliminating shaft wear and upper bearing failures.

Improved hydraulic performance for deeper set depths at all horsepower and flow ratings.

Floating stage design allows for maximum efficiency while minimizing the downthrust load that is transferred to the motor. Floating stage design allows impeller to float independently.

Norylｮ diffuser and disc with 300 Series stainless steel thrust and eye seal protection for durability and abrasion resistance.

Celconｮ impeller provides high performance to increase pressure output while reducing system losses from friction


Kevin,

We get a call every week or two with a pump and motor from the 60's or 70's that just failed. It would be interesting to know how many are still running. It certainly speaks well of the quality of both the pump and the motor.

Thanks Again,
Bob J.
Water Systems Service Engineer


We have been rebuilding (good used parts) your motor since 1964, so we have your PMA skills as well. Both of my pumps are rebuilt (7yr & 11yrs) and my uncle's 2hp motor was rebuilt with 18yrs on it still going (PumpCo pump end). I noticed on your website that you guys sell individual parts to your motors now.


Kevin,

You are correct that repair of about anything is a thing of the past. Craftmanship is becoming a lost art. Keep up the good work!

Thanks Again,
Bob J.
Water Systems Service Engineer


Kevin,

I have several people at Franklin looking through their files and no one has come up with it yet. You are correct that the components of the control box and the Biac switch can handle millions of starts. The control box cannot take rapid cycling for a long period of time without damage to the start capacitor. The motor, whether 2 wire or 3 wire, cannot handle rapid cycling because the high inrush amperage at start up with a direct online start causes the motor windings to heat rapidly requiring at least one minute between starts and a one minute minimum run time to dissipate the heat by water flow past the motor. This is not to limit the number of starts but to allow proper motor cooling.

I am sorry you are seeing mis-information (Talking about Valveman) on the web. I have not given up finding the Biac Switch information we are looking for.

Thanks,
Bob J.
Water Systems Service Engineer

 

[Valveman]

What Valveman is not telling you?????

Now that’s funny. I usually tell people more than they want to hear.
But I stand behind everything I say, and give my real name and contact info to back it up.

Kevin,

The motor, whether 2 wire or 3 wire, cannot handle rapid cycling because the high inrush amperage at start up with a direct online start causes the motor windings to heat rapidly requiring at least one minute between starts and a one minute minimum run time to dissipate the heat by water flow past the motor. This is not to limit the number of starts but to allow proper motor cooling.

Thanks,
Bob J.
Water Systems Service Engineer

You keep postings quotes from engineers who keep telling you that motors cannot handle cycling. Yet you keep saying motors can take millions of cycles just because you have seen it happen. Go ahead and give your real name and contact info so everybody with a pump that has cycled itself to death can get you to take care of it for them.

But start another thread for that because that long drawn out post you made is probably considered hijacking someone else’s thread. And I am probably not being polite even replying to someone who is hijacking someone else’s thread. Sorry!