Afraid of a topic?

[neilly2]

I tried to respond to the union/anti-union post but it didn't work, not sure why.

Someone posted that they were proud that no one engaged in the conversation. What is there to be proud of?? It seems a little ridiculous that you are afraid to discuss on a discussion board.

I'd like to step up and give my opinion on the topic. I've worked with dozens of union outfits and dozens of non-union outfits. (as subcontractors to me)

The unions started out as a positive thing and have turned into a behemoth parasite that feed off the living. I've heard all the arguments for both sides (quality, safety, steady workforce, union pride) and could tell you a zillion stories to prove my point ( and also to point out the exceptions). But it boils down to one fact that any honest union worker will tell you---unions want you to work as little as possible. Make it take longer and bring more money into the coffers.

This one principal goes against everything I believe in---a hard days work for an honest days pay.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

While I basically agree with you about many unions, I do think that TBN is not the place to discuss them.

The last time I checked, this is a tractor forum to discuss tractors, tractoring, and to some degree country life as they relate to tractors.

 

[BillG_in_TX]

neilly2,

Unless you can make a case for this to be "tractor related", it really doesn't have a place here on TBN. There have been many discussions on economics, politics, religion, censorship, etc. that have devolved into sometimes bitter arguments.

Of course, there are plenty of other topics that get raised that aren't "tractor related", but the moderators and administrators don't intend for this forum to be the home of heated discussions - unless they are tractor related. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

So, that's why some people were relieved that a potentially divisive subject was treated light-heartedly.

 

[neilly2]

"parasite that feeds off of the living" this is redundant, and I apologize for that.

I think I could safely argue that this is more tractor related than the "barbeque grill fabrication" or "2 kids that are terrorizing a neighborhood" discussions on this board.

Most landscapers use tractors, and when it comes time to landscape a project you quite often have to deal with union vs. non-union issues. There are not many union landscapers, and if you are running the job union, you have a problem.

As for the discussion part, there seems to be a general distaste for any dissension on this board. I'm not looking for a fight but lets air it out. People are too quick to have their feelings hurt. And, if you don't like the post don't read it or respond to it . Lack of response is the surest way to stop someone getting out of hand.

If you're scared get a dog.

 

[daedong]

While I basically don't agree with you about many unions, I do think that TBN is not the place to discuss them.

The last time I checked, this is a tractor forum to discuss tractors, tractoring, and to some degree country life as they relate to tractors.

 

[BillG_in_TX]

OK, I'm finished.

 

[neilly2]

I didn't realize that they had trade unions in Aus. Obviously, my comments can't pertain as I have no idea what the market is like or how they play a factor.

Now, I do know there are some variances in the way projects are administered in Aus. vs. the US. For example the procurement processes and some liability issues vary greatly.

 

[neilly2]

BillG,

I appreciate your PM and will respond here on the board.

The thread you linked explained quite well the goal of the board and what to do with political discussion. My goal here is not political, especially not as political as that thread.

Bear in mind that I have been at this board since 1999 and have seen some of the posts that have degraded. People filling up posts with exclamation points, insults, ignorance, etc.

I do think at this point, however, we can get into some more contraversial waters without the pettiness. Airing an opinion on a topic is harmless--airing an opinion on another member is not. I firmly believe that this board is capable of handling itself in this regard. I have seen many posts that are ignored and just go away. It's an excellent control device when coupled with the moderators.

Back to the issue at hand. I believe there are a fair number of small business operators, landscapers, farmers etc. that are on this board (at least their used to be) that use their tractors in business and for which this may be applicable. I'm not just trying to justify the tractor relation thing, but I really believe this. Especially with the impact of immigrant labor and the affect of the labor cost on the small business.

These are normally political topics but have application on a day to day basis in the workforce. The latter we should be able to talk about without a meltdown.

I truly believe in a free market system, and as such the market will determine if this post will survive or die a quick death.

 

[Junkman]

Since I was the last one to post to it, it was probably my joking comment that got it closed.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Maybe we should move this subject a little off base and discuss Social Security????? )</font>
The way that people have been taking my comments out of context here, I am going to change my screen name to "whipping boy". I talk propane grill tanks, and my comments are taken to include propane tanks used for fork lifts. I talk brakes on a pick up and my comment is applied to big over the road trucks. I give up...... I am out of here!!!!! The time that I spent on Leno and Letterman wasn't this bad. At least those two guys have a sense of humor.... That is more than I can say for some of the people at TBN. It used to be fun, but the fun is gone..... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif By Walter..... wherever you are.... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[daedong]

Junkman,

I don't believe it, a leopard never changes his spots /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gifwhat will we do for entertainment, /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gifyou really should get your facts right before you post though, just like all other TBN'ers do /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[daedong]

<font color="blue"> I didn't realize that they had trade unions in Aus. Obviously, my comments can't pertain as I have no idea what the market is like or how they play a factor. </font>

I believe the trade union movement in OZ is one of the most militant anywhere. It is only in recent years where laws have given people the choice of belonging in a union or not. up until at least the 80s if you weren't in a union you probably would not have got a job anywhere except with very small employers say of 1 or 2 people. It's unions that made this country, they raised the standard of living for all to enjoy ironically many individuals then become successfull and join forces with the far right and fight their own kind.

 

[BillG_in_TX]

Junkman,

That thread isn't closed. Don't know why neilly2 had a problem posting, but I'm pretty sure it had nothing to do with you. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[MossRoad]

When I was browsing through the forums on Sunday night, the pro union thread appeared at the top of my list as never being read. So I read it. And I was impressed by the membership for taking it light hearted instead of blowing it up, as would usually happen in this type of thread. So I made my comment about vidalia onions. And an hour later someone asked me why I started up that thread again. Huh??? So I went back and looked and the post that I replied to was almost 2 years old. Why it appeared at the top of my list as never being read I do not know. About 20 minutes later Junkman made a reply that went along with the light hearted theme the post was taking. All was well. Apparently you tried to reply to it sometime later in the evening and could not. I believe the post was locked for a while, then unlocked once it was determined all was well, but have not confirmed that at this time. Since then, others have replied to that thread and it is still a civil discussion as of the time I am writing this reply.

<font color="blue"> Someone posted that they were proud that no one engaged in the conversation. What is there to be proud of?? </font>

What there is to be proud of is that the post didn't blow up two years ago as many posts with a topic like this have in the past and the TBN membership should be commended. I apologize for bringing back this thread, but only chose to contribute to it due to the fact that it was light hearted. It was not tractor related however, and I should have known better being a long term member and all.

As for this current thread, you have a very valid point that contractors with tractors have to deal with unions some times. I have dealt with a few unions in my years of employment. I did not have happy experiences with them. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Other members of my family have dealt with different unions and had good experiences with most of them. They have their place. There are good and bad things about them, just like everything else.

 

[MossRoad]

<font color="blue">Since I was the last one to post to it, it was probably my joking comment that got it closed. </font>

I sincerely doubt it. Your comment was light hearted and right in line with the discussion. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Your comments about propane tanks indoors being a no-no... I immediately knew you meant the type for cooking even though a picture of a propane tank on our indoor forklifts also immediately popped into my head. It may not have been so clear to some folks. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif