Dirt Moving An understanding on the age old debate of geared/hydro

   / An understanding on the age old debate of geared/hydro #1  

arrow

Super Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2002
Messages
5,476
Location
Foster, RI
Tractor
Mahindra 3016
Let me preface this by stating I have only driven geared tractors and tried out hydrostatics when the dealer dropped a couple off for me to try at my place. This week I was in Kentucky helping my brother in law with this new horse farm.
I drove and used two geared tractors: A Kubota M5400 and a cabbed M6800 that I suspect were of some late 90's or early 2000 and something vintage. I had to spread 100 yds of surface fill within the riding arena. This entailed all loader work.

I've spread plenty of stuff with geared tractors and never thought much about it. I could never understand the rather strong inclination of those favoring hydros over geared. That is until this past week. The 5400 was an utter pain with its balky left side reverser shifter and the 6800 was much better with its steering column mounted shuttle shift. None the less, I longed for a hydro while perched on both of these machines. It has been the only instance where I thought a hydro was the tractor of choice.

It finally struck me why some are so insistent as to never want a geared tractor again and it has to do with two things: 1. the ergonomics and smoothness or lack thereof of the geared tractor and 2. what the operator will be doing mostly with his/her machine.

Does it make me want to convert? No. Both my JD 750 and 950 were rather a cinch to drive simply going with a straight forward-reverse shift with their floor mounted shifters and my current geared Mahindra is so smooth in its forward/reverse transitions as to not think about it at all.

The hydros I tried were exasperating to me for three reasons: 1. The kubota was a treadle operated unit and the Mahindra was screaming to make its power and just didn't have the pulling power of the geared at higher speeds.

The end of this story is that unless you have experience with comparisons, you'll never know what you're missing or not so in my case, ignorance was bliss.
 
   / An understanding on the age old debate of geared/hydro #2  
I tried a few hydros with treadle setups. I hated them. We bought a late 70’s IH2500b tractor loader. 4 cylinder gas tractor, dedicated permanently attached industrial loader tractor with 3pt hitch, 50HP PTO, and a cab, hydrostatic 2 range transmission. Separate forward/reverse pedals on the left side. Split brakes on the right side. Hand throttle like a normal tractor. Foot throttle on right foot for extra oomph if needed above what the hand throttle was set to. Also had. A differential lock under the right heel. That setup was very nice and easy to use. Left foot controlled direction and speed and right foot was free to use the split brakes as needed. Very nice and easy.

My current little machine has a treadle, but its a two-foot treadle. Right foot forward, left foot reverse. It pivots between the feet left and right. The right forward foot pedal arm is longer to require less foot pressure, since you’re more likely to be going forward. The shorter left reverse pedal makes for foot room on the left side so your left foot doesn’t have to ride the pedal all the time. I really, really like this setup as well. It makes precision positioning with two feet really easy.
A41CE45E-C258-4C02-95A3-8AAAF4448F50.jpeg
 
   / An understanding on the age old debate of geared/hydro #3  
Oh, and it has NO brakes and its articulated. FEL only. No attachments on the rear. All attachments out front.
 
   / An understanding on the age old debate of geared/hydro #4  
When one confuses the terminology of a "tractor" with that of a "loader tractor", it is to also confuses the pros and cons of hydrostatic drive and fixed ratio gear drive.

For some "traction engine" uses on long acreage, a hydro transmission is nothing but a pain, Unless "cruise control" is part of the equation.

For close quarter loader work, Hydro is hands down the most convenient. For blowing snow, the hydro drive has a fixed box over and done with. But, with sufficient ratios in the selection, a fixed box can perform just fine.

Horses for courses? You bet. It's generalizations that are deficient.
 
   / An understanding on the age old debate of geared/hydro #5  
Let me preface this by stating I have only driven geared tractors and tried out hydrostatics when the dealer dropped a couple off for me to try at my place. This week I was in Kentucky helping my brother in law with this new horse farm.
I drove and used two geared tractors: A Kubota M5400 and a cabbed M6800 that I suspect were of some late 90's or early 2000 and something vintage. I had to spread 100 yds of surface fill within the riding arena. This entailed all loader work. I've spread plenty of stuff with geared tractors and never thought much about it. I could never understand the rather strong inclination of those favoring hydros over geared. That is until this past week. The 5400 was an utter pain with its balky left side reverser shifter and the 6800 was much better with its steering column mounted shuttle shift. None the less, I longed for a hydro while perched on both of these machines. It has been the only instance where I thought a hydro was the tractor of choice.

It finally struck me why some are so insistent as to never want a geared tractor again and it has to do with two things: 1. the ergonomics and smoothness or lack thereof of the geared tractor and 2. what the operator will be doing mostly with his/her machine.

Does it make me want to convert? No. Both my JD 750 and 950 were rather a cinch to drive simply going with a straight forward-reverse shift with their floor mounted shifters and my current geared Mahindra is so smooth in its forward/reverse transitions as to not think about it at all.

The hydros I tried were exasperating to me for three reasons: 1. The kubota was a treadle operated unit and the Mahindra was screaming to make its power and just didn't have the pulling power of the geared at higher speeds.

The end of this story is that unless you have experience with comparisons, you'll never know what you're missing or not so in my case, ignorance was bliss.

Hydros work great for me in my lawn mowers. If I did a lot of shuttle work, like maybe a big dairy operation I THINK I would want for a hydro. My shuttle shifted conventional synchro tranny in the 6530 is fast and works great for shuttle work yet is geared.
 
   / An understanding on the age old debate of geared/hydro #6  
We have a CUT with hydro and 68hp with gear and 91hp with power reverser. One with reverser has loader on it and I think rather have full gear over the power reverser for all uses but to me tight work such as lawn care or fel work the hydo would be the best option by far. Used tractor with power reverser for hay accumlator last week for first time and would have really liked a hydo for such a task. Then for such as sprayer where you need a steady speed think by far gear is best option.
 
   / An understanding on the age old debate of geared/hydro #7  
When one confuses the terminology of a "tractor" with that of a "loader tractor", it is to also confuses the pros and cons of hydrostatic drive and fixed ratio gear drive.

For some "traction engine" uses on long acreage, a hydro transmission is nothing but a pain, Unless "cruise control" is part of the equation.

For close quarter loader work, Hydro is hands down the most convenient. For blowing snow, the hydro drive has a fixed box over and done with. But, with sufficient ratios in the selection, a fixed box can perform just fine.

Horses for courses? You bet. It's generalizations that are deficient.

I concur. I prefer a geared for towing/mowing and a hydro for shuttle loading, and close quarters work. That said, my HST plus is my favorite, with cruise control resume, dual speed hi-low, response control adjustment, and auto throttle advance.
 
   / An understanding on the age old debate of geared/hydro #8  
I had a JD 510 (70's German Lanz tractor) years ago. 2wd, no FEL, 12 speed gear forward transmision.
Changed it 9 years ago for a brand new Kubota L3540 HST ROPS with skid steer quick attach.
I do horses grazing fields work, manure, gravel roads maintenance, wood skidding and hauling.
All kind of various task with this tractor.
For my needs, hydro is an absolute must. The Kubota HST Plus hydro transmission is very flexible and can easily be set for all kind of work.
I'm sold.
Since I have no need for it and I can't afford more than one tractor, I'll never have a gear transmission again.
 
   / An understanding on the age old debate of geared/hydro
  • Thread Starter
#9  
I had a JD 510 (70's German Lanz tractor) years ago. 2wd, no FEL, 12 speed gear forward transmision.
Changed it 9 years ago for a brand new Kubota L3540 HST ROPS with skid steer quick attach.
I do horses grazing fields work, manure, gravel roads maintenance, wood skidding and hauling.
All kind of various task with this tractor.
For my needs, hydro is an absolute must. The Kubota HST Plus hydro transmission is very flexible and can easily be set for all kind of work.
I'm sold.
Since I have no need for it and I can't afford more than one tractor, I'll never have a gear transmission again.

Important point you bring up. So much depends on the machine itself. I skid wood mostly and move snow with mine. I would not have picked either the Kubota (with treadle) or the Mahindra hst on my property. When I skidded wood with the 3016 Mahindra hst, I had to be in a certain range to go up inclines or else the tractor would not make it. Low was too slow for me and had to use all the rpms the tractor could muster in medium. I go up the same inclines with the geared Mahindra in third at about 1800 rpms pulling 1500-2000 lb hitches.
With a heavier or more hp hst, I probably could achieve skidding more satisfactorily or at least closer to what I'm used to. Now if I only skidded occasionally, even the hst Mahindra would have sufficed but I probably would have liked the 3616 better for that.
Tractor choice weighs in heavily as well.
 
   / An understanding on the age old debate of geared/hydro #10  
While I have owned more gear drive tractors than Hydros, for the work that I do, where I am located, I will never own another gear tractor. The Hydro is just to precise and too convenient to use.

Arrow, I wish you could operate my Kioti hydro unit for a little while. I think you would really like it.
 
 
Top