Another news story about loose dogs

[NuBota]

The points about trained security dogs are interesting to me. I always wonder about police K-9s. When I was a kid, my mom made my old man get us a dog. He was a police officer and brought home a retired police dog. The German Sheperd was not a loving pet to say the least He would growl and bark when you brought him his food. But in the dogs defense, my folks were not good at dog ownership - didn't spend much time training, yard not fenced, etc. In the end, he went to my uncle and turned into a good pet under his watch. My new neighbors are also police officers with a retired K-9. They were walking the dog the other day, and stopped to chat. I went to pet the dog and the owner warned me off. The dog did not appear aggressive, but did seem agitated. My assumption, again, is that these type of trained dogs need an owner that knows how do handle them. The dog is kept in their house or in the nice kennel out back (no fence) and minds very well - but I did wonder, fleetingly, if I need to worry if it gets out.

I have always had (and have) and been around Golden Retrievers - I have never encountered one yet that was aggressive to a person or other animal - but I would guess there are some out there that are...

 

[Redneck in training]

I didn't read all the posts but here is my story. When we bought our farm my wife acquired an Australian shepherd puppy. He was a sweet angel as long as he was around us with nobody else present. I would just look at him he would turn on his back appeared to be smiling. When we and especially my wife walked anywhere on the property he would circle around and watch. Well there was dark side of him as we found later on. When we got him we thought that it would make him happy to allow him to roam freely around the place. He got no training or discipline past house breaking. We instinctively though that if we would be nice to him he will be nice dog. Big mistake by inexperienced dog owners.
He killed anything that moved around, all neighbors cats, rabbits, he was a better mouser than a cat, he caught, pulled down and killed an injured deer several times his size. He didn't make difference between people and animals though. Attacked a guest who ventured outside of our house and girl jogging on a road by our property. To make the story short we loved him but since we didn't know better he is dead now.
The moral of the story is: It isn't the dog (even pitbull) that is dangerous but the inexperienced or plain stupid owners. It isn't only the dog that has to be trained but the owners at the first place.
We have two dogs now and we do better. I hope.

 

[dave1949]

Sigarms:
If a person wants a mutt hey can get a mutt. Problem is, some don't know the responsiblity of actually owning a dog IMO and guess what happens when real "work" is involved in training the animal? Now, make that mutt a trained guard dog, and IMO the responsibility "level" goes up fourfold IMO, as well as a person who wants to own a "bully breed".

That is the heart of the issue. What does the average dog owner perceive their level of responsibilty to be? It's not a 'one size fits all' situation given the differences in breeds.


Perhaps, and I'm just throwing it out there, if a individual wants to own an animal that is consider aggressive and or dangerous, they should be required to "jump through some hoops" to get the animal other than just paying a buck? However, get the state or goverment involved and we know what can happen. Then again, throw in some back yard breeders who know for whatever reason people want a "pit bull" and they can make some money not caring who they sell the animal just as long as it looks like a "pit bull", chances are you'll have some real interesting people paying $200 for a real "pit bull".

I think education for all dog owners is good, but other than a mandatory dog care and safety type of class, I don't know how that could be universally achieved. Who's going to tell somebody they are too dumb to own a dog? It would be a nice power to have , but maybe unrealistic. It would surely be painted as liberal elite plot to destroy America.

Then there is the issue of who decides and on what basis, which breeds are considered dangerous enough to be singled out for special treatment?

A 'free' market type of approach might involve mandatory liabilty insurance for dogs. The market-risk pricing would make it more expensive to own large and/or potentially more aggressive breeds. Where I lived in Germany, it seemed like all dog owners carried liabilty insurance on their dogs, I don't know if it was mandatory.

I took the 'find the pit bull test' and failed, then I went to the linked site and passed that test While I was there, I looked over the BSL listings, it is apparent they don't like dogs in Fairpoint, IA. Anyways, I see your point about the identification of pit bulls.


Bird:
You know there's an old saying in Texas that "We have the best judges money can buy".

You need to move someplace less well to do than Texas, like Maine - our justice costs less here It is frustrating to read about a court case and think the judge or the laws are sort of wacky.
Dave.

 

[Western]

At first read, I also questioned the "judge" and was trying to draw a parallel to an automobile, as far as used as a weapon, to in my mind discredit the judges opinion.

Bird, grade me here, I'm drawing from my LE experience, so our State statutes could be well different.

"A North Carolina judge has ruled pit bulls don't fit the state's legal definition of weapons and has dismissed assault charges filed after a 6-year-old's mauling.

The News & Observer of Raleigh reported Thursday that Superior Court Judge Ken Titus dismissed the charges against 23-year-old Anthony Whitfield but urged legislators to change state law.The case was one of the first in North Carolina to test whether pit bulls are so clearly dangerous that owners are responsible for controlling them as if they were weapons."

Obviously this isn't amended or addressed in NC laws directly, which would give the judge no "teeth". A vehicle on the other hand is almost always considered a deadly weapon under certain circumstances generally while it is in the "care, custody and control" of the driver. I.E. driving results in death or injury due to DUI, carelessness or intentional.
I doubt they have such a specific law concerning animals. Probably why he said they need to change the law..

"Whitfield had been charged with assault with a deadly weapon inflicting serious injury after his two pit bulls attacked the boy, who was forced to spend three days in the hospital recovering from dozens of bites."

Not much info in the article really, but I am assuming the dogs where just running loose and found a victim, I think the ruling might have been different if it was said or proven that the owner willfully or intentionally directed the dogs to attack, then I could see malicious intent and I'm sure they have provisions in their law for that.

I'm sure the owner will still be civilly liable and you can bet with this much press that will go to a jury..

 

[WTA]

People here keep their dogs on their own property or else. Sometimes people dump unwanted dogs on us and we kept three of them and retrained them but it was a lot of work. I have goats, chickens and other animals that we are allowed to protect with deadly force if needed here in Texas. Thankfully the three dogs I rescued are preventing me from having to do that very often. They don't let anything over our property line. People are ok if they aren't acting stupid but not other dogs or coyotes.

Texas has also passed laws against animals attacking people. Especially with pitbulls. It's not going to be a good deal if your dog attacks someone off your property anymore. They have made it a criminal offense now.

 

[Sigarms]

Who's going to tell somebody they are too dumb to own a dog?

By the same token, who's going to tell somebody they are too dumb to have children? LMAO

A 'free' market type of approach might involve mandatory liabilty insurance for dogs.

I can't say I don't think that auto insurance is nothing more than legalized organized crime. Scares me even more to think about them havin their hands in on our pets.

Heck, thinking about it, why not mandatory liability insurance on your guns?

People here keep their dogs on their own property or else. Sometimes people dump unwanted dogs on us and we kept three of them and retrained them but it was a lot of work.

Ironic that in my rural part of NC, the one thing people seem not to care about is where their un-spayed or un-neutered dogs roam.

So far no one has dumped an animal off around our place. Although my wife and I are known as animal "lovers", people also know I'm not to fond of human beings dumping off animals. Sometimes you just got to have a crazy look about you when you talk to people LOL

It's not going to be a good deal if your dog attacks someone off your property anymore.

With no tags, sometimes it can be interesting to prove someone "owns" the animal.

They have made it a criminal offense now.

As well it should be. People should be responsible for their pets.

That said, if kids are throwing rocks at a dog in a public area and that dog attacks them, should the dog be blamed?

I'm sure the owner will still be civilly liable and you can bet with this much press that will go to a jury..

I'm guessing the owner of the two pit bulls (if that indeed was the actual breed) is no more than just white trailer trash (sorry for the generaliztion but that's where my money is at). Good luck in getting any money. Kind of like all the people who don't drive with insurance and guess who they end up hitting?

 

[WTA]

Sadly I think dogs do get the blame even when a kid throws rocks at them then gets his leg ripped out of the socket.

Pit bulls here are what got the state to enact a law about it. Too many idiots and gang members were raising them to fight in town and the dogs were getting loose and causing a lot of damage. This one 80 year old guy I know was just walking his dog by a house that had pitbulls and was attacked when a couple of them went over the fence. His dog was killed and he got hurt too but he was able to shoot one of the dogs. The bone head owners tried to sue him too but they lost. And got fined heavily for having dangerous dogs.

I just think it's sad that people get away with breeding dogs for fighting. It should be illegal everywhere as far as I am concerned. It's sad that so many puppy mills are allowed to operate. I wouldn't even consider breeding my hunting dog unless I had all of the potential puppies sold beforehand. And I would fix them all before selling them.

It's also sad that people are so stupid that when they dump their dog in the country they think they are setting it free. It will only be free till it gets hit by a car, shot by a farmer or eaten by coyotes. Some people just need to have the stupid slapped out of them on a daily basis.

 

[whistlepig]

Anyone can buy a dog no matter what size or shape. Matters not that these people, who couldn't even raise a goldfish, are buying pit bulls. When the dog causes problems they proclaim "It's just a dog". Well. I'm sorry, there is a lot more to it than that. We have pit bulls and dobermans. They are never let to run loose outside of a fence. The few times we do take them out of the fence they have a shock collar on. We never let children or strangers around them unattended. These are not vicious dogs. No one has ever been attacked or bitten. But we have accepted the responsibility of owning large dogs. It's sad to say that people can't even handle a dog these days with out the courts telling them how to do so.

 

[dave1949]

It's sad to say that people can't even handle a dog these days with out the courts telling them how to do so.

Do you think, in general, people are more lax or lazy or whatever about their dogs than in the past? Seems to be a good bit of difference in various parts of the country about how many dogs are roaming, etc. Maybe I'm just lucky but I have never had that problem.

I would have guessed that pet owners in general have become more conscientious now than earlier.

I did have to take a lovesick Irish Setter home once when we had a female in heat. He was so hormonalized I think he was prepared to starve to death rather than find his way home - which was about 2 miles up wind

I doubt if many of the short hair single-coat breeds would survive the winter on their own in the northern regions. In a town or city they would probably find some shelter from the weather, but not in the countryside.
Dave.

 

[whistlepig]

Do you think, in general, people are more lax or lazy or whatever about their dogs than in the past? Seems to be a good bit of difference in various parts of the country about how many dogs are roaming, etc. Maybe I'm just lucky but I have never had that problem.

I would have guessed that pet owners in general have become more conscientious now than earlier.

I did have to take a lovesick Irish Setter home once when we had a female in heat. He was so hormonalized I think he was prepared to starve to death rather than find his way home - which was about 2 miles up wind

I doubt if many of the short hair single-coat breeds would survive the winter on their own in the northern regions. In a town or city they would probably find some shelter from the weather, but not in the countryside.
Dave.

I think people have lost all respect for anything other than themselves. They won't respect their neighbors. Or anyone else. They won't respect the land. There are people where I work that have pit bulls bragging about how vicious these dogs are. No fenced in yard. No control. Kids running everywhere. "Better not come around my place or my pit bulls will tear you up". And they will. It's accepted by these owners that these dogs are a weapon. Not their problem if the dog hurts someone. State Farm called us a few weeks ago about getting our home owners insurance with them. When they found out we had pit bulls they said they couldn't insure us. Not that we need State Farm. Not our fault. Not our dogs fault. Perhaps we need the federal, state government, or insurance company to tell us what breed of dog we can handle. After all, we all do seem to be that stupid.