Are John Deere owners too naive?

[bigpete]

Interesting story. I wouldn't rush to conclude some of the things I read above, e.g. that the tractor was assembled from parts laying around. Clearly it was a test tractor that was not properly represented as a test tractor, but the manufacturing dates on the components of any tractor can be months--or even a year, or two--apart. Any tractor out there is the product of component manufacturing. That is, radiators are made in one process that may not synch up with a vendor-made tranny, etc. The records were a mess on this machine for obvious reasons, but this is obviuosly an anomaly. I do wonder why the buyer was not alarmed to see a fleet number painted on the back of the machine, as well as some of the other pretty obvious indicators that this machine had a less-than-normal life. Also, the notion that JD corporate had nothing to do with the resolution makes no sense. JD corporate puts their dealers out front as their primary mouthpiece just like the rest. I've been through it and it works. Seems like it worked in this case, too. The hour meter issue is a bit of a "rub" from a legal standpoint, and I wouldn't be surprised to find more cases of hour meter fraud elsewhere in the tractor industry.

 

[JTC]

Yes, there are naive JD buyers, and Kubota, NH, ect as well. New tractors don't have 125 hrs or 177 or whatever number greater than about 10. This guy just happens to be at the top of the sucker list. He bought a used tractor without checking it out at all. At first I was thinking of saying it was a dealer problem not a JD problem, but they were just getting the most they could for this piece of equipment. Not being new, it's up to the buyer to confirm the condition.

Jim

 

[ddivinia]

It sounds like the dealer hosed him and/or the buyer isn't telling us the whole story... That is why car manufacturers crush test models.

D.

 

[18KwPower]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
[sniped]
My point is that a company that justifies its high prices on a well engineered, high quality product that is backed by a first class service and support network should have done whatever they could to resolve the situation without the hassles that this person obviously ran into.
Once they became aware of the situation - JD should have bought the unit back from the customer and immediately sent it to the crusher to avoid a repeat. The reason the unit should have been destroyed (even if functional) is because the hodge-podge of parts made it in a practical sense - unserviceable (and therefore a future blemish on JDs service and support reputation).

BTW - I still think they make some of the best "complete systems" on the market - just too expensive for my blood.

Joe
)</font>
This pretty much summarizes what my friends and I have discussed.... JD == Quality... Thus I'm amazed that JD didn't provide a replacement (new?) and send the pile of parts to the crusher... That tractor deserved the crusher. BTW, I have it on the word of someone that lives close to the dealer they stopped by and saw the tractor for sale with a asking price of $6250 with a used 60"mower deck.... Is that a fair price for something with an engine of unknown hours( 1500 estimated )?

I probably should have started this thread with something like how often does Tractor Fraud occur...? with JD?

I had a JD445 long enough to appreciate its qualities.... For what it was, I could move around pretty good mowing... It was light years better than the MTD/Montgomery Ward mower I had previously. It is nice to know that you should be able to get >22,000 engagements out of the mower deck clutch on a JD. That alone should give most people more than a lifetime of use.

 

[18KwPower]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Yes, there are naive JD buyers, and Kubota, NH, ect as well. New tractors don't have 125 hrs or 177 or whatever number greater than about 10. This guy just happens to be at the top of the sucker list. He bought a used tractor without checking it out at all. At first I was thinking of saying it was a dealer problem not a JD problem, but they were just getting the most they could for this piece of equipment. Not being new, it's up to the buyer to confirm the condition.

Jim )</font>

Isn't it up to the Dealer to provide the buyer with "proof" that it is low hours? Should every used tractor purchaser know that they should ask the dealer for the build S/N's and cross match them to the tractor?

From what I saw on the Iowa Attourney General's web page, they only recommend getting the S/N's for the tractor if you aren't purchasing it from a dealer....

any other thoughts?

 

[rockyridgefarm]

Caveat Emptor

 

[HODAK]

Hmmm....I can remeber when people used to say, "what's a Kubota and how do you pronounce that". /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[aondre]

I live near the Horicon plant and every year they have an employee sale where they sell all of the test equipment at very low prices. Many employees sell this equipment to dealers for large profit. The dealers then do minor refurbishing to the equipment and resell it. Reputable dealers should inform the buyer on what they are getting. The better dealers around here won't touch the stuff.

Several friends of mine work at the Horicon plant, one got a 455 w/tiller and 60" deck for $2K, stuck another $1K into it and has a perfectly good machine (especially for his 1/2 acre lot). Another got a whole pallet load (6) of 25HP liquid cooled Kawasaki's for $50.00, now my daughter has the meanest go-kart around.

 

[18KwPower]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I live near the Horicon plant and every year they have an employee sale where they sell all of the test equipment at very low prices. Many employees sell this equipment to dealers for large profit. The dealers then do minor refurbishing to the equipment and resell it. Reputable dealers should inform the buyer on what they are getting. The better dealers around here won't touch the stuff.

Several friends of mine work at the Horicon plant, one got a 455 w/tiller and 60" deck for $2K, stuck another $1K into it and has a perfectly good machine (especially for his 1/2 acre lot). Another got a whole pallet load (6) of 25HP liquid cooled Kawasaki's for $50.00, now my daughter has the meanest go-kart around. )</font>

This jives with what I've found asking a couple of different JD dealers about this kind of tractor. Basicly JD Horicon will sell a "tractor" and a bunch of parts (engines etc) together pennies on the dollar. Then its up to the dealer to tell the purchaser what they got... Mark up is still pretty high... The dealers I talked to said they automaticly price a tractor like this at the bottom of their JD blue book of tractor values... Then the price can go down more based on the condition of the tractor (or some time up some)...

 

[18KwPower]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I live near the Horicon plant and every year they have an employee sale where they sell all of the test equipment at very low prices. Many employees sell this equipment to dealers for large profit. The dealers then do minor refurbishing to the equipment and resell it. Reputable dealers should inform the buyer on what they are getting. The better dealers around here won't touch the stuff.

Several friends of mine work at the Horicon plant, one got a 455 w/tiller and 60" deck for $2K, stuck another $1K into it and has a perfectly good machine (especially for his 1/2 acre lot). Another got a whole pallet load (6) of 25HP liquid cooled Kawasaki's for $50.00, now my daughter has the meanest go-kart around. )</font>

I was poking around on the "Small Engine Warehouse" web site... The replacement engine is in the $1500 dollar range for a 445... But, really it is misleading since the engine they said would replace it didn't have fuel injection.

Anhow, was poking around for prices on something to use as a "pulling Tractor".... Seems the pullers prefer cast iron Kohler engines not the Kawasaki's like in the JD.

The Kawasaki's still make killer engines... I always had to run mine at full throttle when I engaged the 60" mower deck.... and it still lugged it down until it got spinning. Probably part of the reason why the fiberglass cam's would shell out eventually on the older Kawasaki engines.