murphy1244
Epic Contributor
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2011
- Messages
- 20,038
- Location
- Ohio
- Tractor
- Kubota 1120 RTV Kioti DK-40, MF-135, Ventrac 4500Y
Kioti does not publish list prices. Only sales price.
Arrogant dealer
- Thread starter cosguy
- Start date
Kioti does not publish list prices. Only sales price.
daugen
Super Star Member
I've been wondering about the wide disparity in pricing I'm hearing. Does that "arrogant" JD dealer, or any dealer for that matter, really think they are entitled to a 30 point margin on a product of that cost? Think about what your car dealership makes on a new car sale and the difference in marketing approach is frankly remarkable.
What does a truck dealer make on a $50K new Silverado? Now you know a $50K tractor is likely to have a minimum of ten to fifteen percent markup in it for the dealer, after coming down from a gross of 30%. Car dealers would sure like those margins, though obviously the business models are not exactly the same. How in the world do they think they are worth 30%? What value is being added to justify not getting a fifteen percent discount? Might be interesting to ask those questions rapid fire at the list price guy and watch his adam's apple get to bobbing...
Competition and surely the Internet will change old ways. I've read over and over here about guys buying tractors from Barlows from far away, and the satisfaction level seems high. My local dealer took fifteen and then some off for me, plus he's a genuinely good guy, so for me, it was a real Easy Button.
What does a truck dealer make on a $50K new Silverado? Now you know a $50K tractor is likely to have a minimum of ten to fifteen percent markup in it for the dealer, after coming down from a gross of 30%. Car dealers would sure like those margins, though obviously the business models are not exactly the same. How in the world do they think they are worth 30%? What value is being added to justify not getting a fifteen percent discount? Might be interesting to ask those questions rapid fire at the list price guy and watch his adam's apple get to bobbing...
Competition and surely the Internet will change old ways. I've read over and over here about guys buying tractors from Barlows from far away, and the satisfaction level seems high. My local dealer took fifteen and then some off for me, plus he's a genuinely good guy, so for me, it was a real Easy Button.
CinderSchnauzer
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2006
- Messages
- 1,419
That's great that you have found a "good guy" and I agree one would think things would change. Maybe many of us who post on these forums have a different outlook on life. Perhaps we are in the minority and perhaps many people do not like to haggle or price shop - I don't know. I had a dear Aunt - a professional who ran a small business, but certainly not wealthy. She bought Ford cars from the same dealer for over forty years. Took the old car out - picked a new one - asked how much and paid whatever they said.
First time she told me that, I asked if she was crazy. She mumbled some nonsense answer and that was the end of the discussion and she never changed her ways. Maybe there are more of those types around than we realize.
texasjohn
Super Member
We have a winner....answers most puzzling questions...tractor or politica:drink:l
daugen
Super Star Member
If I'm buying online, I'll track down the cheapest price from a reputable vendor.
But if I want service and help from real people, I think we all know it's likely to cost more than the
bargain basement price. Maybe quite a bit more. If I'm buying a $500 chain saw from a local dealer, yes I know I can price shop an Echo like crazy and probably save maybe fifty bucks. But...when the thing won't start, or I break something, the dealer will literally stop what he is doing to help me. Man there has got to be some real value for that.
The little part gizmo on the dealer wall is likely keystoned, meaning he doubled his cost. And then the margins start dropping like crazy, and I guess the real question is how far should they drop to? Many of us have different expectations and super high Lexus like service isn't going to be discounted, if you can even find it...
On a fifty grand tractor with implements, that's a fifteen grand profit. And likely a spiff for financing.
I look at the tractor as a $35K tractor with a reasonable, fair profit margin built in. Just what that margin is
sure does vary doesn't it?
I will admit that if I'm buying from someone locally I really want to buy from, to reinforce the service relationship, I don't mind paying a little more. But full retail on a seriously big ticket item? You have to be sniffing a lot of carb cleaner for that. Or maybe you are stuck buying from your brother in law...
But if I want service and help from real people, I think we all know it's likely to cost more than the
bargain basement price. Maybe quite a bit more. If I'm buying a $500 chain saw from a local dealer, yes I know I can price shop an Echo like crazy and probably save maybe fifty bucks. But...when the thing won't start, or I break something, the dealer will literally stop what he is doing to help me. Man there has got to be some real value for that.
The little part gizmo on the dealer wall is likely keystoned, meaning he doubled his cost. And then the margins start dropping like crazy, and I guess the real question is how far should they drop to? Many of us have different expectations and super high Lexus like service isn't going to be discounted, if you can even find it...
On a fifty grand tractor with implements, that's a fifteen grand profit. And likely a spiff for financing.
I look at the tractor as a $35K tractor with a reasonable, fair profit margin built in. Just what that margin is
sure does vary doesn't it?
I will admit that if I'm buying from someone locally I really want to buy from, to reinforce the service relationship, I don't mind paying a little more. But full retail on a seriously big ticket item? You have to be sniffing a lot of carb cleaner for that. Or maybe you are stuck buying from your brother in law...
murphy1244
Epic Contributor
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2011
- Messages
- 20,038
- Location
- Ohio
- Tractor
- Kubota 1120 RTV Kioti DK-40, MF-135, Ventrac 4500Y
Drew, that was good.:thumbsup:
foggy1111
Elite Member
Dunno. Been on both sides of the fence. Been a consumer and a tractor dealer in time gone by. It's a dog eat dog world when your a dealer?and trying to make a profit - which is not a dirty word. Some folks aint happy with your deal unless you bleed. HOWEVER?.arrogance is arrogance?.and the problem is bigger at successful dealerships - like the John Deere franchises. It's that arrogance that pisses me off. Just saying.
ajd187
Silver Member
You're right about that, I couldn't find Kioti pricing anywhere online. The price he quoted me, then, was much higher than the JD or Kubota price, even their list price. It was also about $1500 higher than the JD 1025R with the same equipment. And it was also the same price he quoted me on the comparable Massey, which was priced at the list price on their website.
mikehaugen
Elite Member
One thing that separates vehicles from tractors is volume. Car salesman typically see a lot more sales than a tractor dealership... let's face it, they can get by with slimmer margins.
That said, I have not been in a position to buy a new tractor. I go to the dealer near my old home-town that used to be a small independent but is now part of a big 10-deal conglomeration, but you really can't tell. I only go there for parts, but the parts guy knows my name, what kind of tractor I have, and where I live. It's not even like I go there that much, maybe 3 or 4 times a year. He even called a nearby Kubota/Case dealer to try to locate a Stihl part that I needed that day and sent me over there. When I was shopping for a used tractor, they were very helpful in trying to find me something as well.
I have probably 12 JD dealers within 75 miles of me, most are parts of bigger mega-dealers but of those 12, there are at least 4 different groups. I know of I think 3 Kubota dealers, 4 case-IH dealers, 1 mihranda dealer, and I think 2 Kioti dealers in the same radius. I have been to 2 different JD dealerships within the same mega-dealer and both are great. The Kubota dealer I go to sometimes because they are also a woods dealer, and I need parts sometimes. The service/ parts guys there are "ok" but I get a strange, unwilling feeling from the salesman. The few times I have inquired about anything, I got the feeling he was only talking to me because there was no one else there. If someone with seemingly more interest/money walked in, our conversation would have been dropped in an instant. Try to talk used anything with him, and he shows absolutely no interest.
I guess the reason for this long rant is that in my experience, it is definitely NOT something specific to John Deere, or even mega-dealers for that matter. When it comes time to buy a new tractor, I know where I will be looking first. The other nice thing about the mega-dealers is that they can get parts/equipment usually same day from another of their dealers. If I were to look at new tractors, I am sure they wouldn't have a problem finding what I was looking for within their inventory. I also live in the middle of farm country, where these dealers are making HUGE sales with ag equipment, but have never felt the least bit slighted for not going in there to spend a half million dollars.
That said, I have not been in a position to buy a new tractor. I go to the dealer near my old home-town that used to be a small independent but is now part of a big 10-deal conglomeration, but you really can't tell. I only go there for parts, but the parts guy knows my name, what kind of tractor I have, and where I live. It's not even like I go there that much, maybe 3 or 4 times a year. He even called a nearby Kubota/Case dealer to try to locate a Stihl part that I needed that day and sent me over there. When I was shopping for a used tractor, they were very helpful in trying to find me something as well.
I have probably 12 JD dealers within 75 miles of me, most are parts of bigger mega-dealers but of those 12, there are at least 4 different groups. I know of I think 3 Kubota dealers, 4 case-IH dealers, 1 mihranda dealer, and I think 2 Kioti dealers in the same radius. I have been to 2 different JD dealerships within the same mega-dealer and both are great. The Kubota dealer I go to sometimes because they are also a woods dealer, and I need parts sometimes. The service/ parts guys there are "ok" but I get a strange, unwilling feeling from the salesman. The few times I have inquired about anything, I got the feeling he was only talking to me because there was no one else there. If someone with seemingly more interest/money walked in, our conversation would have been dropped in an instant. Try to talk used anything with him, and he shows absolutely no interest.
I guess the reason for this long rant is that in my experience, it is definitely NOT something specific to John Deere, or even mega-dealers for that matter. When it comes time to buy a new tractor, I know where I will be looking first. The other nice thing about the mega-dealers is that they can get parts/equipment usually same day from another of their dealers. If I were to look at new tractors, I am sure they wouldn't have a problem finding what I was looking for within their inventory. I also live in the middle of farm country, where these dealers are making HUGE sales with ag equipment, but have never felt the least bit slighted for not going in there to spend a half million dollars.