Attachments. Too much info, not enough brain!

[dfkrug]

Napa
I have a L3130 with a LA513 loader. I have had it for three years. Now I want to put on a backhoe. To put on the backhoe I want the dealer told me I need to change the loader from the LA513 to the LA723 so the Kubota subframe will fit. There is no way I am going to change the loader. So now I have to find the backhoe I want and fabricate the subframe. I told the dealer when I bought the tractor that some day I was going to get a backhoe and he still sold me the LA513 loader. Of course then I didn't know a loader from a post hole digger. At least now I can tell you the difference.

That is very unfortunate. The dealer had the 513s and not the 723s in
stock, I will bet. Woods makes a lot of subframes and they require you
to have a Woods or Kubota loader to mount the subframe. I would be
surprised if Woods did not support both Kubota loaders.

As for the HP/weight issue, I emphatically agree with JB. Effective
b/h use requires enough weight; power to run the hydraulics is there
on virtually ALL CUTs. From personal experience, a hi-hp/low-weight
tractor is a lot less effective than a hi-weight/low-hp tractor.

 

[patrick_g]

I have several KK implements and they can be OK if you aren't looking for HD or commercial quality. I have a Cimmaron brush hog by Hause that will cut 4-6 inch diameter trees if you tilt the mower with the TnT and back up to them and slowly lower the mower. (40 HP to the PTO)

KK brush hogs are great for grass, weeds, and the ocasional seedling/small sapling not to exceed a couple inches in dia. I have been doing the above HD clearing for over 5 years with my brush hog. I don't think a KK would have lasted.

My box blade weighs about 1300 lbs and is quite sturdy. KK makes box blades that are OK but not nearly as robust as mine. If you are careful and don't exceed KK's level of capability they can last a good long time.

I accidently let my KK rear scraper blade touch the ground while backing up and it bent the blade very easily (too easily.) Admittedly, you aren't supposed to do that but you can't always guarantee that you won't have little mishaps or brief lapses of perfect control.

The KK subsoiler and middle buster are OK. I tend to work my tiller a little harder than I would feel comfortable working a KK but that is just me. If you take your time and be careful a KK tiller could last a good long time.

In general KK implements will do what they are designed to do BUT only if you exercise care and don't over do it. Face it, they are built to a different price/quality level than the better brands. I suppose for Cat 1 implements from KK that are on tractors with less HP than mine (40 HP at PTO) you would be less likely to damage the implement. If you have a 20-30 HP tractor then the KK might seem pretty robust and damage resistant in some cases.

I tend to use all the power the tractor will produce and have to buy implements that can take a little abuse and survive. Costs more up front but delivers more results with less down time.

Pat

 

[napabavarian]

After looking arround I'm very tempted to go with an actual bush hog brand mower, I'm probably going to get an l3830 for a bit more HP and lower CG, 6" wider with bigger rear tires, a little more power and low end torque, but this might step me up to wider implements requiring more HP, not sure yet, but it would nice to be able swing 6' wide implements the $3000 increase to get a 4330 is still a bit hard to swallow I wont go for the HP eating HST no matter what.

Gotta go now, more later.

 

[napabavarian]

A little moer, more reading and considering has me pretty well set on the 3830, my trouble with attachments is knowing who makes quallity equipment, then looking for a good price, with so many companies offering such a range of quallities and only the cheapies having advertised prices it is a little frustrating.

I also have little trust in Gearmore given that I know their buisness practice!

 

[patrick_g]

napabavarian, Yeah baby, whatever you do don't get one of those HST thingies. They are way too easy to work with and therefore aren't as manly as other transmissions.

And that is even without considering all that fuel guzling HP wasting of the HST compared to straight gears. Take for example the BIG MISTAKE I made when I bought the Kubota L-4610 with HST. The geared model is rated to put out 40 HP at the PTO and my sisified HST only is rated for 39.5 which is a whopping 1.5% of loss. Most likely I have to burn about 1.5% more fuel to do the same job too.

It just isn't very manly to only use the clutch pedal when starting (darned safety lockout, probably ought to jumper it so I can start the engine with the PTO engaged and my foot on the HST pedal) and when engaging and disengaging the PTO.

At $3/gal that wasted 1/2 HP is the equivalent of paying 4 1/2 cents more per gal. Economic ruin is certain to rear its ugly head for me and the other poor unfortunates who think the HST is the best possible tranny choice for FEL and other highly manuver rich tractor activities.

If you are into row cropping and hardly ever expect to manuver much in close quarters such as FEL work and such then you will do well with a "standard" tranny.

Pat

 

[john_bud]

napabavarian, Yeah baby, whatever you do don't get one of those HST thingies. They are way too easy to work with and therefore aren't as manly as other transmissions.

And that is even without considering all that fuel guzling HP wasting of the HST compared to straight gears. Take for example the BIG MISTAKE I made when I bought the Kubota L-4610 with HST. The geared model is rated to put out 40 HP at the PTO and my sisified HST only is rated for 39.5 which is a whopping 1.5% of loss. Most likely I have to burn about 1.5% more fuel to do the same job too.

It just isn't very manly to only use the clutch pedal when starting (darned safety lockout, probably ought to jumper it so I can start the engine with the PTO engaged and my foot on the HST pedal) and when engaging and disengaging the PTO.

At $3/gal that wasted 1/2 HP is the equivalent of paying 4 1/2 cents more per gal. Economic ruin is certain to rear its ugly head for me and the other poor unfortunates who think the HST is the best possible tranny choice for FEL and other highly manuver rich tractor activities.

If you are into row cropping and hardly ever expect to manuver much in close quarters such as FEL work and such then you will do well with a "standard" tranny.

Pat

WOW!

I thought that I was a master of sarcasm, but it is plain to see what a real master can do!

Hats off to Patrick!!



Oh yeah, I also use a Kubota HST tractor. The slight loss in PTO and drawbar HP is more theoretical than practical. There aren't any instances I can think of where I might have needed the extra 1 hp. In fact, I have never been in a situation where I needed more HP. More traction, yes. More lift capacity, yes. But, more hp, no. Probably a function of sticking with 5' implements as much as anything.

I also use a ford with a gear shift. Let's just say, I wouldn't try to talk anybody into a DT model over a GST or HST.


Napa, Woods, Brushog and Landpride are among the recognized leaders in implements. You will do good to study their product literature and inspect it in person if you can. Then go and compare the other brands. Ask questions, because someone here will have the implement you are looking at!

Remember my simple rule of thumb. The more an implement weighs, the better it is. A 1000# cutter will have more toughness than a 500# cutter of the same width. A 1000# box blade will engage the ground better than a 500# box. There are some situations where it isn't true, but in general it holds pretty good.

jb

 

[patrick_g]

John Bud, Thank you, thank you very much. I intended humorous sarcasm. Sometimes we can make the mistake of making too much out of specmanship and too little of the wealth of experience available in forums like this and at honest dealerships as well as tractoring neighbors.

I used to laugh at the guys fretting over the difference between 0.007 and 0.01 THD in the audio specs of some stereo equipment or the fact that one amp had 325 Watts vs the other one with only 300. You absolutely can not hear the difference in either case. I assert that side by side doing the same work with two identical tractors except one delivers 40HP and the other 39 that if you didn't tell the operators which was which they wouldn't know. Fuel consumption would not give it away either since the added consumption of the HST is masked by operator differences since they can be larger than the itsy bitsy diff between standard and HST.

Of course running a FEL with your right hand while running forward and back and twirling the wheel with the left hand is somewhat like rubbing your tummy and patting your head at the same time and some folks can't do it all at the same time. Since safety (can I say that word?) requires you to keep your hand on the FEL joystick at all times when in motion with a load more than a few inches off the ground that leaves one hand for steering and of course your third hand to do shifting stuff with non HST tranny.

If you are the type of operator that does one thing at a time then you will have a free hand. Lots of folks integrate the manuver process into the bucket up-down and curl up and down and need a third hand or an HST.

JB, my brush hog is the heaviest duty 6 ft I have seen. Likewise my box blade. I have never had any damage to my box blade but one of the lower lift arms of the 3PH broke in half while carrying the box blade. I'm sure the damage was done earlier and it just happened to fall off while carrying the box. I hired a pro welder to weld the arm back together and weld a splice to overlap the break. We added the extra piece on the unbroken side as a preventitive measure. A couple years later an no problems.

I have managed to bang up the brush hog a bit around the edges but that was from backing at speed into larger than 4 inch trees. Now I raise the mower and back into the tree and lower the mower down on them. This will get a tree up to about 6 inches in diameter but does make the tractor jump around a bit. I assert that there is no KK box or brush hog that will come close to doing what I have done with these implements for over 5 years.

If you are shopping new impelments you can generally see the price track the weight/robustness and quality. I'm sure not nocking KK. Used with care and within their capability they can give satisfactory service for a long time and save you $$. I can get by with KK in some instances but box blade and brush hog are not among them.

I propose that we not debate the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin but take a loupe and count them.

Pat

 

[napabavarian]

First off I never said the gear drive is more manly, in fact I am considering pricing the GST, I don't like automatics in my cars, but I don't think people who have them are stupid so why would it be any different in a tractor

JB- thanks for the pointers on brands

 

[napabavarian]

Of course running a FEL with your right hand while running forward and back and twirling the wheel with the left hand is somewhat like rubbing your tummy and patting your head at the same time and some folks can't do it all at the same time. Since safety (can I say that word?) requires you to keep your hand on the FEL joystick at all times when in motion with a load more than a few inches off the ground that leaves one hand for steering and of course your third hand to do shifting stuff with non HST tranny.

Pat

Hmmm, the head/tummy thing I can't do, but my knee usually works to hold the steering wheel while I make a quick shift, and with the FST foreward/reverse is right at the wheel on a base L model I wouldn't consider gear drive, but with the shuttle the main advantage I see with GST is closer gears, so I need to decide if that is worth the extra money.

 

[jinman]

First off I never said the gear drive is more manly, in fact I am considering pricing the GST, I don't like automatics in my cars, but I don't think people who have them are stupid so why would it be any different in a tractor

JB- thanks for the pointers on brands

Don't make the mistake of thinking an HST transmission has any likeness to an automotive automatic transmission. They are not even remotely the same. I am not sure that's what you meant, but I have seen that misconception stated many times. The HST is just a hydraulic pump and a hydraulic motor attached to a geared transmission you use to change operating ranges. I always consider that my HST transmission is at least 1/2 a gear transmission.

The HST just gives you tremendous control. If you think having slightly less power to the wheels is worth giving up total control of speed and direction with simple movements, then a gear-only tractor is the one for you. If you want to be able to "thread a needle" with your tractor, then I'd surely recommend the HST. Either tractor is fine. I just think what you give up in efficient powertrain operation with an HST is gained many times over in productivity for jobs involving the loader, boxblading, using a rotary cutter where you change directions a lot, and operating a tiller. If you are going to be pulling a plow or mowing large open areas with few direction changes, then a gear tractor wins that contest hands down. Just my opinion....