Battery

[Gary_in_Indiana]

A friend of mine used to say the same thing about wiring. "The electricity doesn't know what color the wire is." /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Richard]

hmm more interesting points, creating more confusion. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

I thought that 12 volts was 12 volts, and 600 cca is 600 cca.. but then deep cycle gets into it, "starter battery"... and my understanding just went out the door.

In defense of "new" battery in there now (from boat), it's cca IS LESS than the minimum required. But I figured since it was new, just sitting there, AND the hoe starts VERY quickly, I'd give it a whirl.

Maybe cca is more critical than I'd thought and Brutus drains more than I'd thought.

They DID tell me that if I used it for not rated purpose, the warranty would be void.

interestingly enough.. during the typing of this, I stopped & called Sears. The dude that first told me about this battery (and was very friendly/helpful) no longer works there /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif.

Hmm..wonder if his departure is because of him being a "can do" kinda guy?

Now, the NEW guy, says, he can't look it up for me today, has to be tomorrow (??). Started to song & dance some about "we never deal in those type"..

When I asked if he had ACCESS to them, or a BOOK to look them up, he hem hawed a bit, and that is when he said he'd have to get back to me.

Hmm..I don't know, but to me, something smells here. Part of me says drop it, go to JCB and get one and just shut up. Another part of me, much more diabolical & ornery, says... take this to the limit, go up chain of command, deal with local manager, store manager, reginal manager, yada yada.. (in the even of their evasiveness).

Currently? my mind is to play "bulldog" with them... this might be fun.

Why can't they just say, "here is your battery, that is "x" dollars, goodbye"?

As I sit here and think more... I think I'll spend the last 30 minutes of my day here, at sears.com trying to see if I can find any info on the diehard batteries... this way, I can maybe be more/as educated as them when I talk to them tomorrow. (oh, by the way, I'm not really expecting them to return my call tomorrow... that's why I got his name /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif }

 

[Richard]

ok, I'm a stinker

I just called store on OTHER side of town, spoke to nice lady (I can schmooze on phone when it serves me /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif }

Anyway..

Diehard
Group 4 "commercial"
1,000 cca
$99.90

Now I wonder, do I be the butthead I can be to my LOCAL store, or just "be cool" about it....


/w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif

 

[Argee]

Buy the battery and tell them your going to use it for whatever it's rated purpose is. If it goes bad, take it back. They don't know what you used it in. Most of the time your using any accessories you have the alternator churning out the juice. Turn all your appliances on and disconnect the negative terminal, if they all run then the battery is just recharging from when you started it. Deep cycle means the reserve the battery holds to run things without being charged. Batteries aren't made to much different than they were years ago, just a lot more hype to get you to part with more money. Different models with similar CCA's means a different size battery for a different sized battery box.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

"Deep cycle means the reserve the battery holds to run things without being charged. Batteries aren't made to much different than they were years ago"
How many years ago? When I started playing with batterys, the intercell connectors were lead straps across the top, the cases were rubber, and we routinely had heavy equipment batterys rebuilt. A reasonably skilled battery mechanic could change out a single cell in a battery with a wood chisel, hammer and propane torch in under an hour, and replace the connector post in a cell in half an hour with the same tools.
Then came OSHA
The current generation of batterys are lead calcium with plates that more closely resemble window screnes than they do battery plates, and intercell connectors that self destruct if the battery is operated at capacity for more than a few minutes.
Deep Cycle batterys are designed to deliver a limited current for a lonfg duration, such as trolling motors, or golf carts.
Starting Batterys are designed to start engines.
The conversion from Lead Acid to Lead Calcium has definitely caused vibration to become a factor in battery design.

 

[BigDave]

<font color=blue> Why can't they just say, "here is your battery, that is "x" dollars, goodbye"? </font color=blue>

I buy my batteries at Kmart, I just put it in the cart along with the underwear, deoderant, & Whoppers and proceed straight through checkout lane. No questions. I swap out the battery, and return the old one to the courtesy desk to get my battery deposit back. I haven't had any problems with Kmart batteries; the current one in my truck is almost 4 years old.

 

[DK35vince]

BigDave,
I'm with you.(I keep it simple).
I measure the width and depth of the battery in the machine.
Look at the cranking amps and type of battery posts go to Wal-Mart and get one.

 

[TOMLESCOEQUIP]

I have a friend who insists on using old cars to their final inch of motion....He uses the WALMART batteries in all his DEMO-DERBY cars.....He says they have a model for $39.95 with a one year free replacement....then pro-rated after that.....his system: Walmart gets his 11 month old battery back at the start of derby season .....EVERY year......So far he's on the 4th new battery but on the 1st 39.95......(he just says it's defective and they ALWAYS give him a replacement)........Are we on to something here ????????????.............Tom

 

[skent]

My (very limited) understanding of batteries is the 'normal' car battery has a capacity for high surges.

It has more plates in each cell, the plates are thinner to give more surface area for changing the chemical energy to electrical energy. The plates are made of a spongy lead compound. They are not designed (plate thickness and spacing) for deep cycle use (that would be discharge to less then 50% capacity) on a repeated basis. Doing so causes the plates to become 'clogged' (the tiny nooks and kranies in the spongy lead) and limit future CCA. Two or three TOTAL discharges (leaving lights on will) almost kill convinential auto batteries.

Deep cycle batteries, on the other hand, have thicker plates with a more 'open' spongy design. This allows more room (in the nooks and kranies of the spongy lead) to prevent clogging of the plates. But having thicker plates gives a lower surge capacity (for starting) because you have a smaller number of plates per cell.

There is a combination of the two that is a compromise (less CCA but better deep cycle life) and is referred to as marine starting deep cycle.

Vibration resistant batteries have more plate support material (plastic) inside the battery and thicker plate spacers, which reduce available surge and reserve capacity.



Basically, surface area and number of plates determines surge capacity, Amount of acid determines reserve capacity (amp hours), and design or composition of the lead it's deep cycle life.

Hope that clear as mud.

 

[Gfranklin]

Re: Don\'t call me when...!

No battery advice here but a comment on the cables. Someone touched on this earlier.

I have a very dim view of those bolt-on battery clamps that are way too often present when I am helping someone start their dead battery. As I understand it, and have experienced it, normal corrosion buildup between the copper strands and the bolted on clamp will start to resist the low current charge from the alternator but yet let a high current burst as in starting pass.. for a while. These clamps are a guaranteed dead battery in your near future.

When my friends show up and I spot one of these on their vehicle, I tell them what to expect and that I will help them replace it with a properly bonded cable and clamp right now while it's convienent for both of us. They don't and the point doesn't sink in till later.

Greg