Grapple Best 66"/72" Root/Rock Grapple Under 700 Lbs?

[Dougster]

What kind of work are you planning? I ask because you seem to indicate you will be digging a lot and I wonder if a grapple bucket (skid steer type) might be the appropriate tool. The root grapples can definitely handle digging out rocks etc but are generally aimed at working from the surface to less than a foot below grade (distance from tip of tines to first horizontal reinforcement). They cannot move the dirt so you end up "playing in a sandbox" once you get down more than 6-12 inches. They are really more for grasping than for digging. That said, most of the grapples people use on tractors are far stronger than needed for typical tractor/TLB type work. I imagine the bigger skid steers could easily destroy a grapple made of mild steel but even a pretty big CUT would not have that sort of lifting/digging capability so virtually all of the grapples should stand up to it.

Hi Ed - Thanks for the reply... and by the way, I envy your beautiful island location! I've sailed around it and anchored there countless times! I kept my sailboat in Warwick Cove for over 10 years.

Your reply goes right to the "root" of my concern... namely, do I need some heavy-duty, high-strength, brand name grapple for my work? Or will a lighter-built, lighter-duty, possibly mild steel grapple... something like the less costly Versatech I'm thinking... still meet my needs without falling apart? My tendency is to always buy stronger than I'll ever need... but the weight/lifting capacity issue is causing me to re-think that philosophy in this case. Some of those extreme heavy-duty grapples I've looked at go up to 1,300 lbs!!! That's way too much.

My problem, Ed, is that I'm trying to kill two birds with one stone. I want heavy-duty construction for the rock/root work... but I also want high net lifting capacity for the log work. As I said earlier, I'd probably be much better off with two completely different grapples... one for digging out the rocks and roots... and one (lighter scissors-type) for the tree/log/brush work.

In regard to the rock/root work, my intended use is exactly as you mentioned... digging out rocks and roots no more than 6-12 inches at a time before regrading and starting again (Mucho regrading to do!). I would only add that I do have the 509 backhoe to help with the biggest rocks... including a fixed thumb someday soon... but I want to be able to dig out and move *lots* of mid-sized rocks at a time with reasonable ease.

Also, please help me out on your other point: Are you saying that a 7,000 lb, 41 HP tractor in low gear doesn't have the strength to bend a mild steel grapple? Or are you saying that something else on the FEL or tractor is likely to give first?

Dougster

 

[IslandTractor]

I understand your dilemma. I cannot say for sure what your tractor could do to a lightweight grapple. I can pretty much do almost anything with mine without hurting it and I can certainly not lift enough or push hard enough to come close to hurting the grapple. I'd say that a twisting motion would be the only way to bend anything and so I don't know what the real advantage of the high strength steels are. I would say that for the price of one of the "tough" grapples you could buy about three of the "light duty" versions so I'd still be inclined to consider the light duty. In all the work I have done I never bent or broke anything on the grapple while grappling or digging as it is designed. I must admit that last weekend while using the backhoe and getting annoyed at dragging the tractor around while digging that I did something stupid that ended up putting a slight bend in the tip of one upper grapple tooth. (my stupid move, which I thought was pure genius at the time , was to use the grapple to clamp on to a neighboring stump in front of the tractor while I was using the hoe to dig on a stump. Worked great until I got greedy and pivoted the hoe to start digging laterally (90degrees) which put incredible force on the poor grapple given the lever arm involved. To help you visualize it, instead of the grapple just keeping the tractor from pulling backwards, it was now trying to hold the tractor from pulling laterally so one tine was doing all the work and it was trying to resist a lateral force plus a 17 foot lever arm and 3000lbs of bucket curl. Genius move eh?) The bend doesn't affect performance at all and is only about an inch out of true. I'll need to "heat and beat" to fix that unless I can find a tractor orthodontist. The experience it showed me that all the bashing and lifting and digging I have done with the grapple when it was being used as designed had not come close to bending anything, it was only when I got inspired to do something dumb that I managed to bend a tine. In the work I have done this summer (70 tractor hours, more than half involving the grapple), I have not noticed any wear at all. The decals were munged up the first day I used the grapple and the paint is off the tine tips but that is about it.

Considering what your tasks are I wonder if you'd do better with something like a subsoiler or middle buster to pop the medium size rocks out and soften up the land and then follow up with either the root grapple or a skid steer style rock bucket. I think there is more than one way to effectively do your job. Again, I would probably try to figure out a way to loosen up the top 8-10 inches of soil you want to de-rock and then a light duty grapple would have no problem at all screening and lifting rocks from the soil.

I agree with you that the rocks and unbroken soil plus a 7000lb tractor with 40+hp of push is a lot of potential for breaking stuff. That's why I would focus on the 3PT attachments for that job. However, once that job is done, I cannot imagine how you could injure the light duty grapple while moving rocks, brush or pushing over trees.

 

[Dougster]

Considering what your tasks are I wonder if you'd do better with something like a subsoiler or middle buster to pop the medium size rocks out and soften up the land and then follow up with either the root grapple or a skid steer style rock bucket. I think there is more than one way to effectively do your job. Again, I would probably try to figure out a way to loosen up the top 8-10 inches of soil you want to de-rock and then a light duty grapple would have no problem at all screening and lifting rocks from the soil. I agree with you that the rocks and unbroken soil plus a 7000 lb tractor with 40+hp of push is a lot of potential for breaking stuff. That's why I would focus on the 3PT attachments for that job. However, once that job is done, I cannot imagine how you could injure the light duty grapple while moving rocks, brush or pushing over trees.

You raise some good points Ed (and very sorry to hear about your little mishap). I'll have to look into the cost of a subsoiler or middle buster and see if one or both make sense when the purchase of other key implements are still pending. I must also admit to a certain reluctance to remove the backhoe when attacking this kind of work... always thinking that I'm going to need it 2 minutes after I remove the darn thing. Maybe what I really need is a second tractor!!! I even know which model I want!!!

The other issue is that I am working right up against a heavily treed property line and my neighbor's fencing. You'd probably need a marked-up photo or two to get a good concept of the awkward situation and what I'm trying to achieve... but suffice to say I feel more comfortable driving up to the property line between the trees rather than driving along side it or backing up to it. Still, your point is a very good one... namely that this is a tractor first after all and there's a nice strong 3 pt hitch down there behind the seat somewhere just itching to be used!

Dougster

 

[IslandTractor]

A subsoiler or middle buster will only set you back $150 or so. Cheap and probably a better tool for what you are doing.

I know what you mean about removing the backhoe but I have also found that I just make a mental note of my various backhoe projects and save them up until I decide to remove the bush hog etc. I went all summer without using the BH and just put it back on last weekend now that I don't mow anymore. I figure I have a nice set of winter projects to knock off and all that saved up backhoe work for the nice winter weekends keeps me safe from some of the honey do list as well .

 

[mike69440]

If you were closer to this part of the world I would recommed Borgford as I think he has the best grapple available. He has a 66" not listed on the web site but I just got one delivered this a.m. and have sold about 20 of them over the past 3 years.

Here is his web site Borgford Manufacturing - Excellence in design & manufacturing for 21 years!

Thanks,
Maka

I have a 66" Borgford on a L39 Kubota. It is the right size for the tractor.

I have bent the upper A514 Alloy Steel Shanks and the welds have let go on the upper strap accross the upper shanks. Granted I try to use the L-39 like a full size machine, but I imagine a larger skid steed could ruin most grapples.

This would be an excellent grapple if the upper teeth were stronger.
Take a look at these materials,
Products & Services
Alloy & Abrasion Resistant Steel Plate - Chapel Steel
Longer and larger welds need to be used in some areas, and it would be nice if a bit of hard overlay could be welded on the tips.
If the grapple were of higher tensile material, 3" cyliners could be used. You don't want to know what I have tried to move with my tractor.

 

[Dougster]

I have a 66" Borgford on a L39 Kubota. It is the right size for the tractor.

Yeah, I am coming to the conclusion that wider is not necessarily better when it comes to a grapple. I'm going to trade down in width for lower weight. That much is clear. I think you are right... 66" is probably as big as I should go. 60" might be even better. I continue to have a very hard time finding weights of these various rock/root grapples. You would think the manufacturers would post that info right up front. What's the big secret?

You don't want to know what I have tried to move with my tractor.

Ha! I'm not at that point yet, but I look forward to the day when I'll have some bragging rights too!

Hoping to join you up in God's country (NH) soon,
Dougster

 

[IslandTractor]

Yeah, I am coming to the conclusion that wider is not necessarily better when it comes to a grapple. I'm going to trade down in width for lower weight. ...... I continue to have a very hard time finding weights of these various rock/root grapples. You would think the manufacturers would post that info right up front. What's the big secret?

The 48" Millonzi weighs in at less than 300lbs. They publish 280lbs. They also have a 60" double grapple version that weighs in the neighborhood of 500lbs. Personally, I don't see the need for more than 48" even with a 40hp tractor for typical grapple use. Stuff sticks out the sides anyway so what does a bigger grapple get you? Big advantage of the smaller (280lb) grapple is the extra 250+ lbs of lifting capacity over a larger grapple.

I think the main reason the bigger grapples are so much more expensive and heavier is that they are built for big skid steer use and those machines have FEL capacities way in excess of what similarly powered CUTs have. Also, I am sure that demo work is tougher on grapples than landscaping work so the heavier gauge materials might be justified for construction use. As I have said before, I can carry so much brush with my 48" grapple that I cannot see where I am going and enough weight that even with a bush hog on the rear I begin to lose stability. Having anything bigger would only diminish the largest stump or rock I could lift and I'd actually get less material moved in the end with a larger grapple.

 

[Charlesaf3]

To back up the strength of the Millonzi, I've already put it into several situations where the FEL or the B3030 couldn't move without tweaking the grapple at all. Biggest rock I've picked up so far was around 200 pounds I guess, didn't bother it at all

 

[Slippy]

Island Tractor continues to make a good point in all these threads about grapples, and the more I think about it the more it holds true...the product you are going to move is going to stick out anyway, so why go bigger. I suppose there are only a few applications where I can imagine that a longer grapple would do better, i.e. hay, grass, small items. However, for my application I want to use one grapple on a 75 hp tractor and a 40 hp tractor. Need it strong enough to with stand the big tractor, but not too big that the utility is lost in weight on the smaller. I'm thinking now about 60" or 66".

 

[dknarnd]

I agree also that a 60" is probably all one would need for general use. If your primary intent is to carry logs then wider would be better but for these small tractors most of us use 60" would even work for that.

I am looking into the standard duty root grapple made by unlimited fabrication in NC, they have a 63" model that weighs around 600 lbs.