Oil & Fuel Brand New Mahindra eMax22 starting problems

[stuckinmud2]

Does anyone have any ideas what the problem might be? I'm not knowledgeable on diesel engines but have a fully equipped repair shop for gas engines. The local dealer just sold me a 2016 Mahindra eMax 22. From the day it was delivered it has had trouble starting when cold. The dealer had it for a week to fix this and a few other issues. From what I can tell they removed, replaced or adjusted most of the fuel system. He said this was due to a change order to reduce smoking at engine operating speed and the only problem with regards to cold starting was some water in the fuel filter. The problem is the same or worse now.

I time the glow plugs almost every time I start it. It's consistent at about 43 seconds. The battery drops from 12.6Volts to 11.5 Volts when the glow plugs are on. Throttle position makes no noticeable difference.

When starting cold (overnight 40F ish) or setting 10+ hours. 1 of 3 things may happen.
1. Excessive black smoke. Looks like the shop is on fire. Puffing dense black smoke and stumbling for around 10 seconds. It did this from day one.
2. White and black smoke. Clearly not firing on all cylinders.
3. White smoke. It has trouble starting at all when white. Diesel splatters out of the exhaust. I can't imagine this is good for the emission system.

Note: Once started it works fine with no smoke. Warm starts have a little to no smoke. What I would expect.

Are the service manuals worth the $150 they sell them for?
Thanks

 

[Tjdux]

Weak glow plug on one or 2 cylinders maybe?

 

[Mattt2778]

i have an emax25 hst and I've always noticed the cold starting issues you speak of. It hasn't been a problem for me in the 250 hours I've been operating it though. When it gets really cold I'll double cycle the glow plugs.

I haven't pulled the trigger on the service manual, based on all the errors in the owners manual I don't expect it's a great resource but I've never viewed it either.

 

[RNeumann]

I thought it had a heat plate in the intake instead of glow plugs. The manual won't help for this situation.
My first thought would be new fuel.

 

[jhuey]

I have a emax25, as with you folks it's a bit cold blooded. So what I do is when it's sub zero I double cycle the pre-heat, when it's 30 deg or warmer I only need one cycle. With about ten seconds left on the pre-heat timer I start it. I talked with my dealer and they told me that's fine. My engine doesn't black smoke, but does miss slightly when really cold, it will puff white, this only carries on for about ten to fifteen seconds, then it does what cold diesels do until warmed up. I intend on putting a keep warm on the engine to lessen the cold start issues and wear and tear of cold running. I don't think they make one that goes in the block, however my dealer told me they do install them in the radiator hose.
I am a diesel guy, generally normal cold starts are white smoke and smell like unturned fuel. It could be fuel quality, however your start with black is not normal. Black is soot, or could be soot. Trying to troubleshoot issues on forums at best can be difficult on tough ones. Soot is generally caused by clogged air filter or bad injector, or injection. If it was my machine I would confirm intake, filters for restrictions. Then injectors (one might be bad), then confirm timing. That's what I would do. Just my$.02.

 

[DavesTractor]

The eMax tractors are a little cold blooded. Not sure exactly why, but it isn't unusual for one to stumble just a tad and put out a little smoke and then clean right up. Seems to have no short term or long term significance, other than the annoyance of a less than stellar start. We have sold dozens of these little tractors and honestly most folks never mention it...and they all do it some. Probably most folks store the tractors outside and the smoke is not as noticeable as starting in a garage.

I'm not saying I like it or agree they should start this way. And it shouldn't fill your shop with smoke, etc. But to smoke a little and take a few seconds to get all 3 cylinders firing evenly - yes, they do that.

No harm is done to the emission system by this, as it really doesn't have an emission system. The sub 26 HP Tier IV tractors of all brands just have a muffler, not a DOC or a DPF to get clogged.

I sell the manuals, but I cringe a little at the cost vs how complete they are. But industry wide, shop manuals for small tractors seem over priced and under performing.

I suspect you are dealing with a pretty normal eMax. I'd just run it, keep it serviced and then look at the issue again when you are just a little short of 2 years old to see if anything is going on that might be able to be addressed by warranty. I suspect there is nothing a dealer can do to make this better.

 

[stuckinmud2]

Thanks everyone for the help! I tried various things over the weekend and can now reliably get it started. I think the biggest thing was giving it plenty of throttle. I was previously trying mostly setting it at idle speed and it just seemed to flood and then be to late to recover. 2 to 3 grand worth of throttle seems to work nice. If coldish say below fifty I cycled the glow plugs 2 times and so far seems to be firing right up. I would love to know what the fuel system is designed to do on startup. Is it looking at temp and adjusting accordingly? Anyhow I'm quite pleased and really put the tractor to the paces for the first time. I live on a hill and did extensive thick bush hogging and ran the front loader with several different materials and heavy loads. It definitely has adequate power. :thumbsup::cool2:

 

[RNeumann]

The eMax tractors are a little cold blooded. Not sure exactly why, but it isn't unusual for one to stumble just a tad and put out a little smoke and then clean right up. Seems to have no short term or long term significance, other than the annoyance of a less than stellar start. We have sold dozens of these little tractors and honestly most folks never mention it...and they all do it some. Probably most folks store the tractors outside and the smoke is not as noticeable as starting in a garage.

I'm not saying I like it or agree they should start this way. And it shouldn't fill your shop with smoke, etc. But to smoke a little and take a few seconds to get all 3 cylinders firing evenly - yes, they do that.

No harm is done to the emission system by this, as it really doesn't have an emission system. The sub 26 HP Tier IV tractors of all brands just have a muffler, not a DOC or a DPF to get clogged.

I sell the manuals, but I cringe a little at the cost vs how complete they are. But industry wide, shop manuals for small tractors seem over priced and under performing.

I suspect you are dealing with a pretty normal eMax. I'd just run it, keep it serviced and then look at the issue again when you are just a little short of 2 years old to see if anything is going on that might be able to be addressed by warranty. I suspect there is nothing a dealer can do to make this better.

When will a dealer be able to sell the same electronic version they actually use in the shop? I see the Mahindra app for the iPad but it needs a password. Saying the version sold to the end user is shop manual is a stretch- the dealer shop isn't using it.

 

[rdinatal]

The engine in the 22 vs the 25 is a completely different manufacturer. That said, I don't experience any difficulty starting in my 25.

I do however start it just above idle. Maybe 1100 rpm and a 30 second glow burn. There is very little black smoke with no white smoke.

-R

 

[DavesTractor]

When will a dealer be able to sell the same electronic version they actually use in the shop? I see the Mahindra app for the iPad but it needs a password. Saying the version sold to the end user is shop manual is a stretch- the dealer shop isn't using it.

That's over my pay grade.