Is it possible for JackIL and for Boomerang1 to both be correct?
From the ASAE specs, breakout force = 5.1.5 Breakout force—at pivot pin (Y): Vertical lifting force, in newtons (pounds), the loader will exert at the bucket pivot pin centerline using the lift cylinders only, with the bucket horizontal at ground line.
Now if that is not clear enough, also according to the ASAE specs, breakout force = 5.1.6 Breakout force (Z): Vertical lifting force, in newtons (pounds), the loader will exert located 800 mm (31.5 in.) forward of the bucket pivot pin centerline using the lift cylinders only, with the bucket horizontal at ground line.
The above definitions apply to "Front End Agricultural Loaders," not to commercial front end loaders as are illustrated in the picture/diagram posted by Boomerang1.
Now the problem I see is that we know that John Deere applies the ASAE specs to their brand of tractors, but we don't know what many other brands of tractors use for their definition. I have always used the commercial definition as posted by Boomerang1, but I suspect that I have been wrong to do so. At least as it pertains to JD, I have been wrong to do so. But what about the other brands? There are many others here on TBN that use the Boomerang1 supplied definition, and others who use the JackIL's ASAE version, and I can think of at least one who has switched back and forth between the two definitions! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Honestly I don't know which one is correct in terms of real use, but I suspect that the most useful one is one we don't measure. Personally I'd like to see them give us a measurement at the bucket CUTTING EDGE that uses BOTH the curl and the lifting cylinders. Seems to me that when I bury my bucket, I use both cylinders to get the load out of the pile and the cutting edge is what really needs to be freed up from the pile so I'd suggest that is the most useful way to measure it. But then again, I'm just applying real world logic, and I don't even play an engineer on TV in my spare time.