Building a shop / shed / barn / greenhouse

[PandDLong]

I have started the process to put up a 28' X 48' X 10' multi-purpose building that will have a finished shop area, unfinished cold storage, a stable area and an attached greenhouse.

When we bought this acreage almost 25 years ago, there was a 30' X 40' ramshackle barn with enclosed lean-to that the previous owner had put together with bits and pieces - it sufficed for awhile. We had a 24' x 42' X 12' post-frame/metal shed put up by a specialty company about 15 years ago. It was unfinished - as per the budget at the time - but I was finishing the interior with the plan to have a finished shop area at one end with full insulation and floor and the rest for cold storage - including the tractor. That plan got stopped when I realized the shed was lifting out of the ground at one corner. Lots of back-and-forth with the company but nothing resolved and the problem got worse over time - no point investing time and money into a shed on the track to oblivion.

We decided in 2020/21 that it was time to take down both outbuildings and replace it with one multi-purpose building. Lumber prices had spiked so we put it off - lumber is cheaper now, but everything else is up so not sure I am ahead in terms of $$. Of course, more time to plan and brainstorm has led to a better plan (IMHO).

Here's the last pic of the two buildings (we had already removed the lean-to on the "barn" in 2020).

I'll post the pics of the take-down of the post frame shed (went very fast) and the build of the new.

I still have decisions to sort out so I'll also put out some questions looking for the greater wisdom of this experienced crowd.

 

[PandDLong]

Here's some pics of the takedown of the 24'x42'x12' shed. The goal is to reuse as much of it as possible in the new shed - save some $$ and practice the 3 R's.

In the planned cold storage area, I had added foam board between the strapping (purlins?) and then put in hard board as an inside protective layer - even this minor addition made a noticeable difference to the inside temp in both cold and hot spells. Here it is all coming out.

Once my contractor arrived to complete the work, it took less than 4 days to get it to open ground (pics attached at the bottom) and I was left with a pile of building materials (the 20 16+' 3 ply 2X6 posts are off to the side out of the pic.

Some of the posts were very wet and getting soft on the underground portion - I estimate they had lifted 12-18" over the years despite attempts to halt the uplift.

 

[fatjay]

Looking forward to this. Something similiar is a plan of mine.

 

[EddieWalker]

Was the uplift from the ground freezing and the posts not being in the ground deep enough?

I'm looking forward to following your progress. When I'm done building the fence for my pasture, I need to add on to my small barn and make it a lot bigger. I'm hoping for some good ideas from your project.

 

[PandDLong]

Was the uplift from the ground freezing and the posts not being in the ground deep enough?

I'm looking forward to following your progress. When I'm done building the fence for my pasture, I need to add on to my small barn and make it a lot bigger. I'm hoping for some good ideas from your project.

Uplift from freezing was the biggest culprit (although I had noticed some movement in wet summers). I had assumed we would find that the posts weren't deep enough when we pulled them out - but that was not the case. In my area, 4' deep is considered the minimum depth to avoid frost. All of the posts had been set at least 4' deep and the ones in the most problematic area had been set about 5' deep (I suspect the original installers noticed those holes were wet and created longer posts to set them deeper). We are in a very dry year, and those posts were wet at the bottom when we pulled them. The post holes had been backfilled with tamped drain rock. So post depth and packed drain rock were the only means to prevent uplift.

In planning the new building, I talked to a few post-frame builders and they suggested going deeper (5' to 6'), having a pad at the bottom of the hole for the post to rest on, and/or adding small wings on the posts to act as uplift protection. None of them were sure it would be enough and suggested I do a geo-tec study (for a few $K).

I decided to just spend the extra $ on the ultimate solution rather than a study (which may force me to the expensive solution anyway). I am going with screw piles and then a concrete grade beam around the perimeter with saddles for the posts wet-set in the grade beam.

A couple test screw piles went in last week and we learned another factor in the uplift problem. The clay in that area is soft like butter with limited load bearing - the screw pile went in the full 10' and was not close to torquing-out (a screw pile in the opposite corner only needed about 8' of depth to torque-out). Some extensions will be needed.

All to say, the posts were set deep enough but the one corner had an abnormal high water table and probably froze deeper and then the packed drain rock offered little resistance as it just shifted into the surrounding soft clay. Of course, once a few posts uplift, it puts strain on the whole building and over time, all the posts had been worked up to some extent (between 6" and 18") - and as they work up, despite backfilling with more dirt trying to keep the bottoms frost-free, the process accelerates over time. It had reached the point where that plastic panel at the top of the walls was twisted and no longer air tight in spots.

Michael

 

[EddieWalker]

That’s really hard to comprehend for me since I live on solid red clay without a frost line. Our concrete foundation footings are only a foot deep. Posts only need to be 3 feet deep.

I like that you are going to max out your foundation. I’m looking forward to seeing pics of what you do.

 

[deezler]

let's see a floor plan drawing of this new combo shop!

 

[DaBear3428]

That’s really hard to comprehend for me since I live on solid red clay without a frost line. Our concrete foundation footings are only a foot deep. Posts only need to be 3 feet deep.

I like that you are going to max out your foundation. I’m looking forward to seeing pics of what you do.

yea freeze protection to me down here means put a shovel of dirt on it. sorry for your issues and it sucks to have to remove a perfectly good building (other than the issues you are having).

 

[PandDLong]

let's see a floor plan drawing of this new combo shop!

Good idea - not sure how I missed doing that. North is to the top - so that covered lean-to will also be out of the sun for the tractor attachments and other items that I will tuck under there. My house is to the left about a 150' and I can see the front door from that bottom-left (SW) window in the shop (that ended up being an anchor point for the location as I thought it would be important, otherwise I would have put the building further North and out of sight behind a set of trees).

The window sizes may seem a bit random - went and picked them up at a window 'graveyard' to save a few $$ (and I will reuse the one from my previous shed). The man-door from the shop into the greenhouse was discounted about 80% - it comes with a sidelight window - which I hope I like when it is in - it was too cheap to turn-down.

Michael

 

[PandDLong]

Scrape the area down to clay and build it back up to the right grade (and level).