Building a stick frame house in the woods in 90 days

[FairfaxStu]

Stu,
In regards to the floor sag. Ok here goes . For example you have 2x10 floor joist they will shrink about 1/4-3/8" when fully dry. Now you go and put in a 2x10 main beam that your floor joist rest on. That is going to also shrink 1/4-3/8". Remember your whole floor will shrink about the same amount so not that big of a deal. Now where the beam is the floor will lower and additional 1/4-3/8". That is were you get the problems with doors hanging up. Drywall may also crack.
When you use LVL lumber as your main beam you don't get the shrinking. If you use the I joist they have you have nearly zero shrinking in your floor.
Hope you can understand what i am getting at if not let me know i will try again.

When you say shrink, I am thinking lengthwise. Are you saying that a 2x10 actually loses 1/4-3/8 in width so more like 9 1/8 or 9 1/4? If so, that is amazing.
-Stu

 

[BuilderML]

Why wouldn't the builder get paid for painting it again? He didn't choose the first color.

Sorry to say but i agree

 

[J F]

Don't be sorry.

 

[BuilderML]

When you say shrink, I am thinking lengthwise. Are you saying that a 2x10 actually loses 1/4-3/8 in width so more like 9 1/8 or 9 1/4? If so, that is amazing.
-Stu

Yes that is what i am saying Pressure treated Lumber is even worse
Thats why when you install joist hangers and you go back some time later you can slide shims under the joist. Thats is why i do not rely on joist hangers alone. I always toenail.

 

[s219]

Yep, wood can shrink quite a bit across the grain. Hopefully most of it happens while it dries/cures. But that still can screw up the actual size of dimensional lumber.

 

[BuilderML]

Someone said something about the drywal job on the vault area being sub par. This is a truss roof, they have alot of play at the factory and alot of spring back once truss is removed from jig, Tough to fix unless guys shim prior to drywall and or use the rc1 channel i talked about.

 

[FairfaxStu]

Yes that is what i am saying Pressure treated Lumber is even worse
Thats why when you install joist hangers and you go back some time later you can slide shims under the joist. Thats is why i do not rely on joist hangers alone. I always toenail.

Ok, I am not trying ot be argumentative here but I still don't get it. If it shrinks dimensionally in width then that should lower the floor above consistently by the amount of shrinkage, right? Are you saying that because the center support is also wooden it will shrink by twice that much at the center since you have 2x resting on 2x lumber? If so, I can potentially see that. The center support beams for my house are steel as are in Peter's own home but not this one.
-Stu

 

[pacerron]

Ron,
You are incorrect in saying that "i said" that this wouldn't happen. First off i would not make a rake piece the way they did. The way i listed how i would do it also has 2 additional bends in it when a 1x3 is installed. What you see happening is because of the way they tie the rake in with the boot. First off that would not happen if done the way i do it. If you go back and read the post you are talking about you will see what they do and did is not at all the way i do it,
so yes i can say that what is happening on Peter's house would not happen on my job. What you see happening to me in all honesty is poor design/craft sorry just saying it the way it is. With that aside what you see is not due to how the rake piece was made but how they tie it into the "boot". You just can't do it that way. The only way "they" will fix it is by adding more nails. In doing the boot and rake the way they do which i would not recommend could really only be some what fixed by bending an "undersill" sliding it under the rake piece that is hanging over the boot. The "undersill" would follow the rake and be blind nailed then the rake would slide into the "undersill", allowing the rake to expand in the undersill. Nails will lock it in place causing more buckling in the future.Sorry folks thats why you don't do it the way they did.

High Builder,
Yes I understand your fascia shaping method and agree the chance of warbling is far less likely except right at the soffit end where the bottom bend back has to be cut off. The length of this tail varies with pitch of the roof but is always there with a boxed in soffit end.
The only problem I have with your explanation is that from the beginning of the discussion back on the high end rake fascia on the bedroom end of the house you have advocated a 1 x 3 ( actually 3/4 by 2 1/2 nominal board ) be added under the sheathing overhang. You have failed to observe that the ladder rake extensions are made of 2 x4 ( nominal 1 1/2 x 3 1/2 ) lumber. You are seeing it in the pictures but your mind keeps telling you that it is a 2x6 rafter.
A 2 1/2" wide piece added to a 3 1/2" wide piece is out of proportion as it would only leave a 1 1/2" bump down prior to the fold under to hold the 1/2" thick profile of the vented soffit plastic. Reverse those dimensions by using a 3/4 x 1 1/2 board along the 1 1/2 by 3 1/2 top and I'm with you. Your fold back piece that goes under the roofing and nailed through the felt into the roof sheathing provides the same protection as a separate T drip edge over an L shaped fascia provides. The bends for the extra 1 1/2 board do provide
more rigidity to your flat coil material than a Z bend, similar to the same rigidity provided in the preformed L fascia by the 2 rolled in ridges along the length and upward edge bend of the L. The line of the bottom of the T drip edge gives the same illusion to a casual viewer as your extra board.
I still can't agree with nailing up through your bottom lip and through the plastic soffit material. Unless the holes were predrilled denting of the bottom edge would occur that would look more obvious to someone walking under the fascia, into the garage or house, than the nailing done through the face into the wide dimension of the 2 x 4 ladder rake extension.
The sketch attached is how I understand your fascia profile.
Ron

 

[mjncad]

:laughing:

Me too..my website pics are all "picasa"...too bad Apple hates it.

3D Computer Aided Design Services(CADD) for homeowners from Craftsmen Carpentry Atlanta - Serving the northern Atlanta, Georgia suburbs - Call 770-888-9989

You do nice work Jay. My house should look half as good. :thumbsup:

Day 79


And they got the hardy plank installed on the upper portion of the garage. They mounted the bases for the lights way high. Will likely need to go with a different design lights here now compared to what I had planned. No a big deal I suppose.

This is the style light I had planned:

Yes, the lights are one siding plank too high in my opinion; but at least the builder got the lights centered on the plank and used mounting box trim to give it a finished look.

I like the Progress light style (luminaire for the architects out there) you chose as it's simple and classic. If the high mounting of the lights is going to be a problem, then you could look for half-height lights in the same style as they are common. The advantage to the lights Pete chose is that the uplight portion of the cylinder will reflect off the soffit to provide broader softer illumination of the driveway, while the downlight portion will act as a spotlight.

Pete, did you have any "Dark Skies" regulations to deal with?

MJNCAD,
Yes it is probably too late for the X bracing. The metal ones you spoke of have one end nailed to the top edge of the floor joist before the subfloor is
ever put down. They usually hang loose on the bottom until everything is framed up, squared and plumbed. Then the bottom ends are nailed at the bottom of the joist.
Same basic thing for wood X bracing. It would be hard to attach the tops with a nail gun or hammer correctly after the subfloor is down, but it has been done.
Scab bridging as you mentioned could still be easily done in the centers of the 3 joist runs between the beams, but not as effective as X bracing to prevent the yellow pine from roll cupping.

In any case, a subfloor is just a subfloor, and many builders try to use it as the only underlayment for tile since they don't want to deal with the added expense of having "void free" plywood made for tile underlayment and other backing for wood and carpet so everything comes out the same level when done.

Picasa is fine for basic 72 resolution SRGB images and even the free editor works ok for that. When you get into RAW 16 bit conversion and Adobe RGB or other color work spaces that retain more of the spectrum it doesn't work too well. That's an entirely different subject and really not appropriate for TBN discussion unless they have a photography forum too.
Ron

At this stage of the game, there is no real easy "X" bridging solution I hate to say. This article from Fine Homebuilding may be of interest to Pete if his Mom's house has bouncy floors down the road. Correcting a bouncy I-joist floor - Fine Homebuilding Question & Answer

My Mom's 1956 bungalow had 2x8 floor joists, with diagonally laid 1x4 subfloor, followed by 3/4" plywood in the kitchen and bath, and hardwood flooring in the rest of the rooms. Granted the span wasn't all that great compared to modern houses; but floor bounce was essentially non-existent, which is pretty darn good for a starter home neighborhood.

For the average TBN'er, Picasa web albums should be more than adequate.

 

[BuilderML]

High Builder,
Yes I understand your fascia shaping method and agree the chance of warbling is far less likely except right at the soffit end where the bottom bend back has to be cut off. The length of this tail varies with pitch of the roof but is always there with a boxed in soffit end.
The only problem I have with your explanation is that from the beginning of the discussion back on the high end rake fascia on the bedroom end of the house you have advocated a 1 x 3 ( actually 3/4 by 2 1/2 nominal board ) be added under the sheathing overhang. You have failed to observe that the ladder rake extensions are made of 2 x4 ( nominal 1 1/2 x 3 1/2 ) lumber. You are seeing it in the pictures but your mind keeps telling you that it is a 2x6 rafter.
A 2 1/2" wide piece added to a 3 1/2" wide piece is out of proportion as it would only leave a 1 1/2" bump down prior to the fold under to hold the 1/2" thick profile of the vented soffit plastic. Reverse those dimensions by using a 3/4 x 1 1/2 board along the 1 1/2 by 3 1/2 top and I'm with you. Your fold back piece that goes under the roofing and nailed through the felt into the roof sheathing provides the same protection as a separate T drip edge over an L shaped fascia provides. The bends for the extra 1 1/2 board do provide
more rigidity to your flat coil material than a Z bend, similar to the same rigidity provided in the preformed L fascia by the 2 rolled in ridges along the length and upward edge bend of the L. The line of the bottom of the T drip edge gives the same illusion to a casual viewer as your extra board.
I still can't agree with nailing up through your bottom lip and through the plastic soffit material. Unless the holes were predrilled denting of the bottom edge would occur that would look more obvious to someone walking under the fascia, into the garage or house, than the nailing done through the face into the wide dimension of the 2 x 4 ladder rake extension.
The sketch attached is how I understand your fascia profile.
Ron

Ron,
Yes your sketch is correct in showing the way we do the rake piece, Yes with a 2x4 gable you would need to use a 1x2 for proportion. I also set the 1x piece even with the top of the sheathing and only bend back in to cover the 1x piece. You are correct that both methods provide the same protection. I am not looking only for protection, i am trying to get as many bends in the rake to make it more ridgid. That is what keeps waves to a minimum. As far as nailing from below, Have you ever done this? We have not had a problem with denting the coil. We are using s.s. trim nails when attaching with no need to pre-drill. To be honest the prebent L i think your talking about is not something i would use on my house, so no i would not use it on someone else's. Its looks cheap with rolled profiles going down it but that is just my view. When the extra 1x piece is installed and you get down to making the "boot" in basic you bend an undersill, tuck it under the 1x over your rake and then slide your "boot" piece into that undersill