Buyers Remorse

[LMTC]

I have read for several years now how it makes no sense to shun the orphans. That concept has been restated many, many times---by retail buyers. I invite any of you to go into business and service these machines and these customers. You have no idea of the myriad drawbacks and pitfalls that make that not profitable in our experience and in my opinion. Some of those drawbacks have been discussed in other threads, and before anyone counters them I suggest they try to run a business in this market to learn if these drawbacks are valid. The VAST majority of owners of these machines who contact us want FREE help. We offer them manuals....if they buy them, we will go from there. I would venture to say we have sold perhaps 5 aftermarket owner manuals this year, in response to a minimum of 5 contacts per week.

Occasionally I used to tell a caller that for a $50 deposit they could have one hour of my mechanic's time on the phone.....I no longer do that, as NO ONE ever took me up on the offer, and many cursed me. I also used to offer one hour's worth of diagnostic time for the same money, here at the shop. No caller wanted that (and most were not even close enough for it to be realistic)....they wanted free advice. We are NOT a charity. I cannot afford to put a mechanic on the phone everytime someone wants to ask questions about their tractor's problems. Our tractor customers own us for life. Others have to buy a piece of our time. Why be upset with us for not servicing the piece of junk you bought elsewhere rather than being angry with the guy who sold it to you? (and I'm not saying posters here are, but way too many of the people who call us about this do get angry with us)

 

[Tractors4u]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Seems to me you guys are confusing "used tractor lots" with "dealerships". I don't believe I would expect anything from a "used tractor lot" except a tractor, little or no warranty, no parts, no service, maybe a " have a nice day". )</font>

It just depends on the person behind the counter, or tractor so to speak. I sell from my front yard. A friend of mine imports and I get my tractors from him. I always supply what I call a "mini owners manual" in paper and electronic form. It covers the operation, maintenance, and safety do's and don'ts. The local Massey dealer has called me on more than one occasion when they were trying to help a customer with a grey market tractor. I had people call or e-mail years after the purchase with questions or parts needs and I helped them out. I like tractors and selling them is a natural extension of that interest. The people who hurt this trade the most are the one's you are talking about Norme. They are the ones who don't know diddly about tractors and got into it because it looked like an easy way to make good money.

 

[1danny]

I don't know why anyone would say that parts availability is poor for the YM1600, YM1900, and YM2200. We have a lot more parts for these tractors than the F & FX models.
Danny
Parker Equipment Co

 

[California]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Ask yourself why the 2200 (and 1600, 1900, 2700) are found primarily at the VN recon dealers and not on the lots of those of us who "deal" in the grey market tractors. If your seller is not going to supply you with parts, who do you think will? )</font>

Here's the source for my quote.

This seems to be a difference of opinion between two reputable dealers (and frequent posters), each with plenty of experience to base their opinion on.

Please folks, nothing to see here. Lets move on to discussing who might support those orphan buyers. They probably are going to pester everyone in the industry. And lets not turn this into a criticism of those dealers who do, or do not, chose to serve them.

It is perfectly reasonable for some dealers to consider the orphans too much nuisance but I think there is also an opportunity here to identify those dealers that the orphan owners might turn to.

TBN has been a valuable source of information for me, and I hope this thread can document some useful information that we all can refer the newbies to. It aready has an ideal title for that!

(edited to quote your entire paragraph) Wayne, I guess I misunderstood this to mean the buyer would have trouble finding parts.

 

[LMTC]

I had already written the post below when I read California's second post. I can see how you might make that assumption from my post, but I did NOT say parts were hard for those four models. The issue of many VN recon sellers not supplying parts is an additional issue to the one that they also sell a lot of models not brought in by others. One just followed the other in my post.


Like the old party game of "Telephone", each repetition of a statement seems to cause a mutation. Recently in another thread I wrote </font><font color="blue" class="small">( Ask yourself why the 2200 (and 1600, 1900, 2700) are found primarily at the VN recon dealers and not on the lots of those of us who "deal" in the grey market tractors. )</font> as a rhetorical question. I am guessing the remark earlier in this thread was a reference to that.

Fact is, not many importers are bringing in those 4 models. Lots of reasons, age being one. Yet some of those models seemed to be much more prevalent among the VN recons, at least the units I saw coming from HD and those I have seen at auctions.

 

[SteveM]

I dont think there is a real solution to the orphan tractor owner's problems. First, remember they bought the cheapest tractor they could find, so that probably means they are going to balk at the idea of paying for service. Second, these people dont know ANYTHING about tractors typically, so live PTO might as well be a vegetable dip....

I agree with LMTC - these folks are not likely going to comprise a profitable relationship. But here is what will happen:

1) They buy a shiney junk tractor with mis-matched internal parts. Very hard to work on.
2) It breaks, they have no where to turn
3) They eventually give up and sell the broken tractor very cheap.
4) Some patient, knowledgeable guy buys the tractor and slowly corrects the mechanical problems, pumping probably 50 hours and $1,000 to get it into reliable shape.

Now the tractor is ready for work, and the guy can sell it for $3,000 and get some of his labor back (but not at commercial shop rates).


My opinion...

 

[shvl73]

I didn't take the original post's as trying to alienate other purchasers. It seems Mark777 is willing to help, just frustrated at the lack of knowledge some buyers have & the amount of time their questions take up. LMTC's also seemed willing to help. Some of the customers (who bought elsewhere) just don't seem to understand they run a for-profit business (how can they fail to understand this?) and time is $. People looking for free help should turn to forums like this one & find a good local repair shop if possible, but pay the going rate.
At least that's my take on it.

 

[California]

Ok, maybe I'm just chasing a rainbow and my perspective doesn't match the real world.

What I hope to see is enough information posted here so that the buyers of these orphans can maintain them. This would also serve as a warning to prospective customers of ebay auctions or roadside lots.

There is a model on TBN for this: in the Chinese Tractors forum I see reference to Chinese Tractors Owner's Association (CTOA). Apparently support is so bad for the buyer-imported Jinmas that a manual-writing project is underway by the owners.

There's a tradition in the internet community for this sort of grass-roots project, Linux is the best-known example. I've posted my original Yanmar-USA dealer brochures in my sig photos in the same spirit, to share what (little) I know with other owners.

Maybe this isn't the right thread to pursue my topic since it started out discussing how dealers are getting hammered with the same newbie questions. In that post I noticed how those buyers are too intimidated to post here.

I think the answer is self-help encouraged by the Yanmar community rather than for them to pester dealers they will never pay. I'm an optimist, I hope that after buying documentation and finding access to parts most of these buyers will evolve into pleased owners.