Bx25 use on a steep hill

[Ken45101]

Someone mentioned skidding down a hill with useless brakes. I haven't done this, as my slopes are not long enough runs to get into a runaway situation, but if your run is that long, you might trail the bh with the boom straight and the bucket curled, teeth down. If you loose traction and start to slide, be ready to pull the lever and impale the bh teeth to get some drag. You can also drop the FEL and let the bottom scrape. I would do the bh first though in order to have the resistance in back of the tractor rather than in front of it.

The hill I slid down was only about 60'. It doesn't matter how long the hill is, once you lose control, you've lost it and it's hard to regain it unless the slope flattens out. Again, that only happened when I had the tractor in 2wd, going forward down the hill. Because the weight of the tractor is above ground level, when you are facing downhill, weight transfers off the rear wheels (reducing rear traction) and puts it on the front wheels which do not have braking in 2wd.

I have never experienced a problem with the backhoe sliding (it is always in 4wd), but I would go with dropping the loader bucket over trying to dig in with the bh teeth (I'm just speculating here). If you drop the bh bucket, you are removing weight from the rear axle, letting it lift. If you drop the loader bucket, you are unloading the weight on the front axle and giving more weight to the rear axle for braking, and more stability with the wider FEL bucket.

If you have a problem, it's going to be from front weight, not rear weight IMO. I'd rather get that heavy front bucket on the ground. Just my thinking, your results may vary.

Ken

 

[Tom_H]

The hill I slid down was only about 60'. It doesn't matter how long the hill is, once you lose control, you've lost it and it's hard to regain it unless the slope flattens out. Again, that only happened when I had the tractor in 2wd, going forward down the hill. Because the weight of the tractor is above ground level, when you are facing downhill, weight transfers off the rear wheels (reducing rear traction) and puts it on the front wheels which do not have braking in 2wd.

I have never experienced a problem with the backhoe sliding (it is always in 4wd), but I would go with dropping the loader bucket over trying to dig in with the bh teeth (I'm just speculating here). If you drop the bh bucket, you are removing weight from the rear axle, letting it lift. If you drop the loader bucket, you are unloading the weight on the front axle and giving more weight to the rear axle for braking, and more stability with the wider FEL bucket.

If you have a problem, it's going to be from front weight, not rear weight IMO. I'd rather get that heavy front bucket on the ground. Just my thinking, your results may vary.

Ken

You may well be right. My thoughts are based on all the times I had to slide downhill on black ice. If my front brakes locked up (this was pre anti-lock brakes) first, the truck would go into a spin; if the rears locked first, there would be a tiny bit of drag, but no spin. It was always a challenge to pump the brakes just the right amount so as not to lock up. The coefficient of friction on ice and on this hillside will be different. Dropping the FEL first probably would result in the FEL digging in and stopping the skid, especially if the speed and inertia are low enough. On the other hand, if there is enough speed, inertia, and slipperiness that the FEL can't stop the skid, I would think the drag in the front would induce a spin. Again, this is nothing but speculation. If the conditions are steep enough for this kind of speculation, I would just hire my neighbor who has a bulldozer to push some material from top to bottom. With a reduced angle and softened soil, the Kubota could do finish work.

Maybe we should write the mythbusters and have them test what would happen to a tractor skidding down a hillside!! Should be fun to watch no matter how it turned out!!! :cool2:

 

[Dirt Doctor]

Back down the hill if your carrying anything. Some hills aren't meant to have rubber tire tractors on them.. but if it is within reason, then you can back down the hill, bucket low to the ground, and on some kubota tractors you can change the width of the rear tires, space them puppies wide wide wide. Counter weight the tires, filling them with gel, (only to the recommended level), and sometimes carry something in the bucket going down, dump and reload the bucket for going back up, 4 wheel drive always...
Backing down is safest... it prevents going up and over..and your bucket can drag or your back scraper can be gradually dropped if your speed gets too out of hand.
Jack

 

[Ken45101]

Okay, I'll admit to speculation here, I haven't tried this.

However, IMO, it would be safer to drive forward with a load going downhill. If it actually does get tippy, the FEL will land on the ground and provide stability and prevent flipping over.

Because of the weight distribution with a tractor, I think there is a greater chance of tipping backward than forward.

I do know definitely with a skid steer, you keep the bucket downhill for more stability, both going up and down, loaded or not.

I have had a skid steer sit back on it's haunches going forward up a moderate grade. Backing up the same, or steeper grades was no problem with the bucket on the downhill side.

Ken

 

[leonz]

IT is not safe to back down a hill with a loaded bucket of material with your BX as the tractor can potentially flip if the brakes are applied with force as the front of the tractor will want to follow the direction of travel and if the tractor is sliding >>>>................ The rear wheels will want to continue to roll backwards and the weight will continue to travel in an arc as the tractor will not have a tether to add resistance to the mass moving down the hill.

"A body in motion tends to stay in motion"


The heavier end is the engine end and the potential for rear rollover is huge;
its no different than if a tractor is pulling another stuck tractor from the rear drawbar THEY WILL FLIP because the rear wheels will continue to rotate and this has killed many people this way.


Edit: If you examine how the the Nebraska tractor tests are conducted you will see how these things can destroy themselves on hills and steep slopes as they are tested using a remote control tether system.
Tractor pulls are a prime example of this happening and why they have mandated roll cages for these tractors.


The easiest decision is to simply have your neighbor move it from the top with his machine as it has a low center of gravity, much greater wieght, and will carry more in less time for you.

 

[Tom_H]

IT is not safe to back down a hill with a loaded bucket of material with your BX as the tractor can potentially flip if the brakes are applied with force as the front of the tractor will want to follow the direction of travel and if the tractor is sliding >>>>................ The rear wheels will want to continue to roll backwards and the weight will continue to travel in an arc as the tractor will not have a tether to add resistance to the mass moving down the hill.

"A body in motion tends to stay in motion"


The heavier end is the engine end and the potential for rear rollover is huge;
its no different than if a tractor is pulling another stuck tractor from the rear drawbar THEY WILL FLIP because the rear wheels will continue to rotate and this has killed many people this way.


Edit: If you examine how the the Nebraska tractor tests are conducted you will see how these things can destroy themselves on hills and steep slopes as they are tested using a remote control tether system.
Tractor pulls are a prime example of this happening and why they have mandated roll cages for these tractors.


The easiest decision is to simply have your neighbor move it from the top with his machine as it has a low center of gravity, much greater wieght, and will carry more in less time for you.

I am the one who has the neighbor with the bulldozer rather than the OP. I have to agree: there's no way I would back down a hill with a loaded FEL in front of me, especially on a steep hill. There's just far too much chance of a backflip or a spin that pivots into a roll. If one had a box blade, scraper grader, a subsoiler, or set of rippers to go on the 3ph, that could serve as an emergency brake while going forwards downhill. I mentioned the bh earlier because the OP has a BX25, but I think one of these would work better as a rear brake if he has access to one.

 

[Ken45101]

I don't know the BX25, but I know my B21 manual says not to use the loader without the backhoe or something else heavy for a rear weight. Most rippers or small scraper blades are not all that heavy. I think the backhoe would be a better counterweight.

Ken

 

[Mounted Madness]

Back down the hill if your carrying anything. Some hills aren't meant to have rubber tire tractors on them.. but if it is within reason, then you can back down the hill, bucket low to the ground, and on some kubota tractors you can change the width of the rear tires, space them puppies wide wide wide. Counter weight the tires, filling them with gel, (only to the recommended level), and sometimes carry something in the bucket going down, dump and reload the bucket for going back up, 4 wheel drive always...
Backing down is safest... it prevents going up and over..and your bucket can drag or your back scraper can be gradually dropped if your speed gets too out of hand.
Jack

I felt a shiver go up my spine and the sphincter reflex was noted as well.

To quote a cautionary note...Danger Danger Will Robinson.
Don't back down with a load in the bucket.
Aside from the other responses to not doing this, you'll be turned in your seat, slowing down your reflexes, and physics being what it is, you will have moved your body weight off center (to what ever degree) and the machine will potentially SURPRISE YOU.
How do I know? Why my pragmatic approach to learning...what hasn't killed me usually makes me careful. If it wasn't for being a flatlander, I'm sure I would have dumped my machine by now. :thumbsup:

 

[Lt220]

My father-in-law is on his 2nd BX 24 with FEL and BH. His property is very hilly. He also uses his BX on other properties that are steep as well. He has owned and used a BX for so many years that he has gotten very comfortable with using his tractor on the steep hills. He has told me often that the only way you will ever get comfortable and confident in your tractor is to test it out and use it allot to get comfortable on it. He has never had any problems or any possible tip overs and he has been in places that I would not attempt. Just use the old seat of your pants rule...that works for me:thumbsup:

 

[Tom_H]

I don't know the BX25, but I know my B21 manual says not to use the loader without the backhoe or something else heavy for a rear weight. Most rippers or small scraper blades are not all that heavy. I think the backhoe would be a better counterweight.

Ken

You are right about the counterweight. I don't know what the length of the boom would do in this situation of a full FEL on a steep hill, but I would be afraid that extending it away from the CG just makes the whole thing more unstable, yet on the other hand I would want to have the bucket teeth ready to impale the ground as a brake. The issue of counterweight did cross my mind when I put up my last post. It would be helpful to have something that could be a counterweight AND be able to serve as an emergency brake. A box blade with some extra steel attached would provide weight and the blade would dig in if breaking were needed. The light weight of the sub-soiler is why I put extra ballast on mine. Pics in this post:


http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/148963-post-hole-digger-warning-6.html#post1771314