Case 444 won't start

[Roadnuts]

I recently bought 2 Case 444's from a friend of mine who had them sitting in his yard for at least 3 years. After bringing one in the garage, going through the carb, and replacing the battery I tried starting it. It wouldn't crank over at all. I put a wrench on the starter/generator and it was very hard to turn. I removed the starter/gen unit, had it rebuilt by a local shop and reinstalled it. Now the starter functions without the belt on but as soon as the belt is attached to the engine it will barely crank the engine over! If you put the wrench on the start/gen nut you can easily turn the engine over by hand. When you crank the engine with the key it barely moves, not nearly enough to start. I'm at a loss here. The engine cranks over fine by hand, the battery is brand new, the starter/gen unit is rebuilt, why won't it crank faster? I pulled the spark plug and it doesn't look like the piston is moving a whole lot,... maybe half an inch? When cranking it by hand you can hear compression coming from the plug hole. I wondered about a bad battery, but it doesn't get any faster with my automotive jump box attached. If it had internal engine damage, wouldn't it be hard to turn over by hand too!? Frustrations abound, I'm determined to figure this thing out!! Help!!

 

[ihuntbear]

sounds like a bad battery but take all the plugs out to see if it turns over and put your finger over the spark plug hole to see if you have compreson.If your finger blows away from the hole the valves are working

 

[ihuntbear]

sorry misread .. are you saying the starter is the starter/gen,starting by belt??

 

[Roadnuts]

Yes, the starter/generator is belt driven to the engine. It's mounted on the driver's side (left of the engine). It turns clockwise. Any idea which direction it should spin? I've seen a couple Delco-Remy starter/gens that spin CCW which concerns me. Is it possible it's spinning backwards?

 

[Travelover]

Some suggestions:

Take out the spark plug - starter / generator should spin it like crazy

If still sluggish, jump it from a car or truck battery

If still sluggish, engine is excessively hard to turn over due to internal issue or accessory (hydraulic pump) load OR starter is still not working properly

Starter rebuild shop should be able to test output torque

 

[jwnge]

Yes, the starter/generator is belt driven to the engine. It's mounted on the driver's side (left of the engine). It turns clockwise. Any idea which direction it should spin? I've seen a couple Delco-Remy starter/gens that spin CCW which concerns me. Is it possible it's spinning backwards?

both should, I think, be turning clockwise when looking at it from the front o the tractor

 

[Roadnuts]

So I performed a voltage drop test on the starter/generator. Only lost 1/2 a volt or so, meaning the cables are good and the battery is good. Since the engine cranks over just fine by hand with or without the spark plug in it I'm thinking the starter is just very weak. I watched a video of a kohler K321 being disassembled and noticed that the spark plug is threaded in just above the intake valve, thus why I wasn't seeing much movement of the "piston"! It's the intake valve moving. Needless to say, assuming the new unit works, I'm not to happy with my local "repair" shop! I just ordered a replacement unit tonight, and will update my findings with it.

 

[Roadnuts]

Well, got a reman starter/generator unit, installed it and it does the same exact thing! Still no start! I'm getting pretty frustrated by this. You can crank the engine over just fine by hand (with a ratchet and socket). It seems to build compression as there's air puffing out of the plug hole. If I had a hydraulic issue wouldn't it be hard to turn over by hand too!? I'm gonna start taking the engine apart, there's gotta be something wrong here. I don't hear anything rattling around, but what else can it be? Any ideas are much appreciated!

 

[Travelover]

........I'm gonna start taking the engine apart, there's gotta be something wrong here. I don't hear anything rattling around, but what else can it be? Any ideas are much appreciated!

I'd advise against taking the engine apart at this point. It is possible that the re-manufactured starter is bad. If you can easily turn the engine by hand, the starter should whip it over like crazy with no spark plug installed.

There should be a torque test available for the starter generator. I'm thinking like install a socket and torque wrench on the pulley shaft and energize it momentarily. It should create a certain amount of torque.

Also see article link below:

Starter-Generator

Troubleshooting Starting:

Check that there is 12 volts to the A terminal of the starter generator unit when starting. If not, measure step by step using the principles outlined in the FORK LIFT troubleshooting article. this will explain how to isolate the external problems. The internal problems usually are: short brushes, worn rear bushing with armature dragging on the pole shoe, shorted armature, or the start field shorted to the field housing. Low cranking torque may be caused by someone putting regular generator brushes in, because they fit. Most likely it is a high resistance problem in the power source to the unit.

 

[RUTBUSTER]

I have had (2) 444 for the past 40 years. Both turn over the same way as you are describing. Both have never had the starter generator worked on. Mine have always turned over slow but they don't turn over more than a couple of times and start right up. If it's not starting I would look and see if it is a gas issue. Is it getting spark, and is it getting gas? Even after mine set for a long period of time I squirt a little gas in carb and it will start right up. They are the best tractor I have ever owned. Very little maintenance.