Cast iron repair

[WinterDeere]

interesting thread. what size or swing? is the saw, 17" or greater? sounds worth restoring the vintage machine

This one is 32", which is huge by modern hobbyist standards, but actually not one of the larger industrial-scale bandsaws Crescent made at that time. Their standard line went to 36", with a 38" HD option.

They or Tannewitz actually made some larger saws, into the mid-40-inch range, but they all had to be built into the factory floor, essentially over a pit for the lower wheel, to keep the saw table height at a usable level for an operator.

This isn't my first bandsaw, or even my tenth piece of vintage equipment, I used to have a whole shop full of 1000+ lb. vintage machinery from early 1900's. Right now, most of my shop is 1940's industrial and commercial models, more by coincidence than design.

Thank you for the explanation. I've done some foundary work, and went to bed after reading on your project and got to wondering how they could cast that wheel and keep the outer flange in one piece, much less keep it round. Banding a steel rim to affix to cast spokes does make a whole lot more sense.

In fact, as I look at your original wheel is it possible that the outer band was originally riveted to the spokes?

I'll have to get a closer look at the original. The literature from Crescent claims their wheels are cast as one piece, and then the outer rim turned (both OD and ID shoulders) true, before balancing. So, if we believe their marketing literature, that original with the huge missing section should be one piece.

The replacement is of unknown brand, it could be Tannewitz, Colladay, Oliver... really anyone making 32-inch bandsaws 100 years ago. I believe that wheel is two piece, an outer steel hoop shrunk and welded onto a cast spoke and narrow rim wheel. Essentially, cast wheel, face and turn hub, then turn OD to accept a steel hoop. Weld hoop, heat to expand, and slip onto wheel, fixture in place while it cools and shrinks, then tack weld a dozen spots.

Bottom line is if this is a project that matters, I would take both wheels down to your local Foundary and have a chat with them.

Philly used to be filled with foundries, but I don't think there are any left. There are some in Lancaster, who specialize more in agricultural stuff and fireplace doors, but I have had them make machine parts before. I don't think they're equipped to turn a 32" wheel, though... so we're talking foundry plus separate machine shop. Probably a few dozen Benjamin's for just this one part... and I already have another bandsaw. Tough call.

I'd go with your third option have a blacksmith cast a new wheel and shrink a new wheel to it. Or most any machine shop could fabricate you a new wheel out of steel.

I work with machine shops on a pretty daily basis, so I guess I could ask one about making a new part in steel. It would look a little odd having a clean machined wheel totally open and visible on this cast antique, but it certainly would be functional! Right now, I'm leaning toward having someone spray weld this wheel to build it back up, then let my machine shop re-turn the rim to true it up after welding.

 

[big bubba]

whoa, that's colossal. assume you can find the blades at a specialty supplier. i understand now your reasoning for restoring it's use. regards

 

[WinterDeere]

whoa, that's colossal. assume you can find the blades at a specialty supplier. i understand now your reasoning for restoring it's use. regards

Blades are no problem. There are many places that stock coils of all common widths and tooth configurations, and I just call them up, specify the loop length I require, and they weld it up and mail it out. The only down side of 16' blades over 10' blades is cost, and how awkward they become to handle, as they get larger.

 

[big bubba]

sounds like things are in place. that industrial size certainly overshadows my Grizzly 17", but i'm well satisfied. a 16' blade is something to observe, let us know the outcome of repair, regards

 

[rScotty]

I'll have to get a closer look at the original. The literature from Crescent claims their wheels are cast as one piece, and then the outer rim turned (both OD and ID shoulders) true, before balancing. So, if we believe their marketing literature, that original with the huge missing section should be one piece.

That's what I was wondering. It's just trivia, but deducing how the old timers made their parts is a fascination in itself. Even if your original wheel is one piece, I doubt that the foundry's master pattern was a single piece. Pattern models are usually buit up in pieces and then assembled. It wouldn't be a surprise if the pattern was of wood riveted to a steel hoop.

When the foundry uses that pattern to make the mold to cast the part, a successful casting will naturally reproduce all the surface features...including any welding and rivet heads on the pattern piece.

rScotty

 

[WinterDeere]

That's what I was wondering. It's just trivia, but deducing how the old timers made their parts is a fascination in itself.

Been working on another project all day, stuck at the computer. But will make it out to the shop tonight, if only to inspect the original wheel and get some better photos of it. Like you, I'm curious.

Most of the machines in my prior shop came from foundry pattern shops, as they had the best and biggest equipment made, at the time. There was a period 20 years ago, when all the foundries were closing, where you could have 24" planers, 26" jointers, and 16" table saws from Tannewitz, Oliver, and Colladay for the cost of moving them. Most came with three-phase motors, and I had a 3-phase generator, but eventually converted each to single phase. This bandsaw is the last of the "real old" machines I had 20 years ago, the rest were sold off to make room in the shop for working on cars and tractors.

If anyone thinks this little bandsaw is big, you should've seen my table saw! It weighed in at just a little over 2200 lb., the motor itself weighed 400 lb. The original power source was a steam engine-powered line shaft, later converted to run off a Ford flathead out of a model T. When it bought it, it was running off a 3-phase motor from the 1950's, but I repowered it with a more proper single phase 5-hp motor from Century, all turn of the century stuff. I think that saw was made around 1902.

Makers of machinery cared so much less about human life, back then. This band saw has no guards on the wheels:

 

[rScotty]

It was a great era. I wonder what we will find of equal interest to preserve from today's manufacturing?

The largest band saw - by far - that I've encountered was at an old WWII warplane factory in Los Angeles. This was in the early 1970's, where I spent a couple of winters escaping from the snow and learning about craftsmanship, endless rain, and boat-building.

Inside that old building were some three dozen builders of 30 to 40 foot cruising sailboats. All sorts of different designs. Each buider rented enough space to construct their peculiar version of a sailboat to see the world. Most worked days and built at night. So the days were quiet and the nights full of activity.

In the center of the building was the BANDSAW which had been restored by some previoius boat builder. It was two stories tall. The blade came down through a hole in the ceiling and vanished upstairs though another. Very handy for long planks and for tapering wooden masts.

rScotty

 

[WinterDeere]

Was it a tilting bandsaw, aka "ship saw"? Crescent made some of them, I think Tannewitz made more in the larger sizes. I remember seeing a documentary on one as large as you describe, ran a blade that must've been something like 4-6 inches wide!

Got tied up working on an air compressor project tonight, sort of re-doing my entire shop air dryer and distribution setup, which meant the figuring of dozens of new fittings, pipe, etc. Ended up putting it all into 3D CAD and doing up a full BOM, going to try to pull this one off without the buckets of extra fittings I normally have on hand for jobs like this. Buy only what you need, use only what you buy... or at least that's what I'm going to try!

 

[rScotty]

Was it a tilting bandsaw, aka "ship saw"? Crescent made some of them, I think Tannewitz made more in the larger sizes. I remember seeing a documentary on one as large as you describe, ran a blade that must've been something like 4-6 inches wide!

Got tied up working on an air compressor project tonight, sort of re-doing my entire shop air dryer and distribution setup, which meant the figuring of dozens of new fittings, pipe, etc. Ended up putting it all into 3D CAD and doing up a full BOM, going to try to pull this one off without the buckets of extra fittings I normally have on hand for jobs like this. Buy only what you need, use only what you buy... or at least that's what I'm going to try!

View attachment 854478

Is it Solid Works? I've still got a copy of that CAD that I learned just to prove to myself that I could... and to keep the youngsters at bay.

But at heart I'm still a pencil sketcher.

Well, my hat is off to you buying just what you need. It is an admirable goal. I'm not there yet. I'm still at the stage of "....if it looks like I might need it, into the shopping cart it goes." and trying to wean myself from buying two of everything...just in case.

My intent is always to return the unused fittings, but that is just the intention. The reality is that returns rarely happen . Besides, even though I don't really need a spare 4" brass valve - much less two of them - where would I ever find them at that price again? And look how beautiful they are!

Yes, that huge bandsaw table did look like it could be tilted. But we never did. It would be a massive job to tilt a table that large. I don't remember the measurements, but it had to be 20 feet long and perhaps 4 or 5 wide. I'm thinking the blade was not quite that thick.... maybe 3"? I'm afraid it has been too many years.
When we turned it on, the relays would bang home, and the whole building would give a shake. Then the floor would sort of quiver as it gained speed. But once up to speed, it ran remarkably smoothly, quiet, and true. Very precise.

rScotty

 

[big bubba]

good thread. unfortunately, pattern makers, like tool & die, are rare these days