Cheap Fram Oil Filters

[Dallas_Lilly]

This is an interesting web page related to oil filters and how they are constructed.

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

 

[Hard]

Simply putting YES and NO would have sufficed. You have written your poll questions in such a way to get the poll results the way you want.

Thanks for your interesting reply.

 

[Bird]

Simply putting YES and NO would have sufficed. You have written your poll questions in such a way to get the poll results the way you want.

I think many, if not most, polls and surveys are designed to get the results the author wants. This one just happens to be an extreme example of that.

 

[Mike_Lipke]

I think many, if not most, polls and surveys are designed to get the results the author wants. This one just happens to be an extreme example of that.

I agree, and thought the same from the start.

If you composed the question as: "Would you rather spend 3 times more for an oil filter hyped on the internet, but was never proved to be a better filter on your new or nearly new compact or sub-cut?", you would get different results than above.

About 15 years ago, Consumer Reports did an acutal scientific test on oil filters, filtering oil in police cars, then analysing the oil and engines for wear and particulates. Up on the top, or near the top was Fram. Now I don't know if that test would come out the same today or not.

I work for a large company that sells engine oil additives to most of the manufacturers of gasoline and diesel engine motor oils. If I posed the question: "Would you rather buy an oil with more, or less, anti wear additives?", most on this forum would answer "more".

But if I asked one of our additive engineers the same question, they would answer, "depends". Depends on which blend of which additives, going into which base stock, which weight, what octane, how hot, how cool, how much traces of which minerals, etc. Too simple a question for a simple answer.
And I gotta tell ya, most of us on this forum can't answer it either, because we can't taste, smell, feel, or tell by color, or pouring, or any other measure we have available to us, which oil is better or even horrible. We have to depend on the API rating, and we have to trust that rating, cuz as complicated as things are today, its all we have.

Do Fram's cost less cuz they can buy filter media cheaper than any one else cuz they buy so much? -or- do they cost less because they are junk?
I don't know.

Pleats? Are more better?
Is an 8 legged chair better than a 4 legged chair?
How about a poorly made 8 legged chair vs a well made 4 legged chair?
Or, is an 8 legged pine chair better than a 4 legged oak chair?

I really don't know. But I would probably sit on any of them, and never break it.

 

[markct]

"Let me clarify one thing. Yes, OEM filters have more pleats and usually, I am not sure in every case, Wix and some other high quality aftermarket filters have even more pleats."


very few oems actualy make there own filters, most are made by companies like wix, donaldson or hastings as well as others im sure.

 

[kentrodngun]

A "cheap" Fram oil (#2921) for my Kioti LK3054 runs $13 at the Autostore (if they have one in stock). Even online it runs almost $9 plus shipping. OEM from the dealer is cheaper by far but I wouldn't knock Fram or call them cheap (at least not for my filter .

 

[bbse]

Check out that website posted bt Dallas_Lilly. It shows the internals on a lot of these filters. Looks like Champion makes a decent filter also. It seems to come to the same conclusion as this discussion, except it is hard on Fram. BTW, Fram is still using paper caps on the media(everyone else uses metal) and cheap parts just like i remember.

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

Quote:
Years ago Fram was a quality filter manufacturer. Now their standard filter (the radioactive-orange cans) is one of the worst out there. It features cardboard end caps for the filter element that are glued in place. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals against the cardboard and frequently leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak all the time. The stamped-metal threaded end is weakly constructed and it has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow. I had one of these filters fail in my previous car. The filter element collapsed and bits of filter and glue were circulating through my system. The oil passage to the head became blocked and the head got so hot from oil starvation that it actually melted the vacuum lines connected to it as well as the wires near it.

 

[Dargo]

Years ago Fram was a quality filter manufacturer. Now their standard filter (the radioactive-orange cans) is one of the worst out there.

Precisely what I've found. I wouldn't put a Fram filter on anything I own.

 

[Z71]

The filter market is cut-throat, filters are considered by many store chains as "commodities" and the cheapest filter yields the largest profit, so that is what is on the shelf.

The aftermarket (w/ a few exceptions) will make the cheapest filter they can get away with, weather it meets the OEM specs or not. Claims to "meet OEM specs" are completely hollow and are just window dressing on the container to get you to buy the filter. The after-marketers reverse engineer the filter according to size and thread type and such and make what they want. If you think about it, the only way the aftermarket competes at all with the OEM parts is on the basis of cost. And if the same company mfg. OEM parts, they sell their branded filters made of different componets almost always of less quality than what they make for OEM. If the aftermarket parts cost more, very few people would consider them. Case in point, people here talking about price and that determining what they buy, not quality. One person won't buy Fram because it cost more than OEM. So they have to be cheaper or most will not buy them as this gentlemen. So they skimp on the parts, the design, the material, the testing, the validation, etc..... Just common sense tells you that. There is a tremendous markert for cheap parts and these companies know that. A good friend is a manager for a parts store and that his biggest challange, keeping ahead of the competition on price, qualty is not all the important to lots of shoppers until they get screwed by the cheap item.

Fram is not the biggest selling filter because it is the best, its the biggest selling because its the cheapest. Sure you can point to Fram models that are costly but you will often find that these are not ones made by Fram but filters there can't/don't make but have to source from another mfg. Why? Because the design may be different and would be more costly to tool up for than to just go find a source of them.

I have never used a Fram, not because I thought anything negative about them but I always had access to another brand. Before WM came here, Fram were not that prevelant in this part of the state.

I just cut open a Fram PH8A (FL1 M/C) and you can see how cheaply made the components are. Buddy gave the this filter he had for his Ford but when he found WM was selling Motorcarft for a few cent more, he did not want to use it. I can take some photos if any PH8A users are curious to see the innars. I don't have another brand to compare to unless I go buy one at WM. Maybe I will.

 

[Hard]

Check out that website posted bt Dallas_Lilly. It shows the internals on a lot of these filters. Looks like Champion makes a decent filter also. It seems to come to the same conclusion as this discussion, except it is hard on Fram. BTW, Fram is still using paper caps on the media(everyone else uses metal) and cheap parts just like i remember.

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

Quote:
Years ago Fram was a quality filter manufacturer. Now their standard filter (the radioactive-orange cans) is one of the worst out there. It features cardboard end caps for the filter element that are glued in place. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals against the cardboard and frequently leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak all the time. The stamped-metal threaded end is weakly constructed and it has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow. I had one of these filters fail in my previous car. The filter element collapsed and bits of filter and glue were circulating through my system. The oil passage to the head became blocked and the head got so hot from oil starvation that it actually melted the vacuum lines connected to it as well as the wires near it.

Good one bbse...Cardboard End Caps....Fram filters are low quality...I was waiting for soeone else to bring up the cardboard caps. That's just one of the several quality features that makes Fram Filters the filter of choice for Wal-Mart.