Buying Advice Chinese yes or no.

[doxford jim]

This is not a particularly Chinese problem - US companies do it too.

Many years ago I was offered a Chief Engineer's position with Tidewater Marine aboard their oil supply vessels. I accepted and then went to Singapore to join the vessel. I signed the usual contract and assumed wrongly, I might add, that the salary agreed on would be paid.
Was I ever wrong as I was to find out later. When the first pay advice was sent to me I immediately noticed the wrong daily pay rate. When I queeried it I was told when I return the next time I would get the proper rate - WTF.
Shortly after that I developed dizzy spells and got sent home on medical leave at their cost.
The difference between the daily pay rates was not a lot, but the fact that they deliberately misled me was enough for me to high tail it out of there. When a company is as dishonest as that (US company) it is time to part ways permanently.
Just my two cents regarding ethics.
Cheers

 

[ultrarunner]

Apple would have to be different... their name is on the product and I can show up at the corporate headquarters in Cupertino if there is a problem...

Made in China sand buggy shows what happens when there is no US responsible party...

As for Japanese vehicles of the 60's they had two things going for them... they were economical in price and maintenance and garnered respect for durability... not to say they did not have problems like rusting out before they wore out in snow country.

 

[newbury]

I just have to criticize the title of this thread WITHOUT READING THE POSTS!

Every time I read the title I think mmmmh, chinese sounds good, but to much MSG.

 

[GrandLakeGAR]

Last year I bought a 60 HP Mercury 4 stroke outboard. The crate it came in said made in China. Unpacked it and motor also said made in China. Wasn't too happy but it looks like Mercury builds all their 4 strokes there now. No complaints with the motor, it's as good as my 2 stroke Mercury's that came from Wis. Chinese labor can make quality products when they use good components.

 

[kenmac]

Chinese labor can make quality products when they use good components.

I have yet to see quality in the so call Chinese tractors.. Some may be better than others, but the quality isn't close to the major brands.. Maybe in time, but not this time..

I have a 30+ yr old yanmar tractor that I have beat to death for the past 7 yrs. with only changing the oil, the filters and some grease.. No way a Chinese tractor (from the problems I've read in the Chinese section) would have held up without some major repairs..

There use to be a guy here Rob3RR ?? that had to rebuild his fairly new foton ? after only a few hrs. I believe he also had to replace some stripped gears in the front end

 

[KiwiBro]

FWIW, I recently had a Chinese tractor importer here actively discourage me from buying one from him. Official line was he doesn't stock parts, but unofficially he admitted they aren't up to much more than weekender usage.

Bullet dodged.

Now onto investigating the simple Same and Deutz models because i know they at least have good service and parts support here.

 

[sd455dan]

If you buy from a company that builds to western standards, ASM, AISI, ASTM, ANSI, ASME, AWS, etc., then you have a good chance at buying quality, provided they are rigorous in their inspection of & enforcement of those quality requirements. Established eastern & western companies that source to China have some degree of oversight on what they will and will not accept from the factory, and that's part of what you pay for when you buy from an established make. When you buy direct from China, I'm really not sure what you get. There will be Chinese companies that figure out what the Japanese did after WWII - that they have a quality perception problem in western markets and the way to address that is to adopt western quality standards ... or equivalent eastern standards ... and be rigorous in their enforcement. A reputation for quality is like any other reputation - hard to establish and easy to lose.

It sounds like there are some Chinese brands that are already committed to this path to quality, and if I were in the market for a Chinese tractor I'd be reading everything I could about the different brands, here on TBN, and taking careful notes.

I think there is truth in the quality standards for chinese tractors that are operated under ISO quality control. My 1993 Rhino 554 was produced around the time Shanghai factory adopted the ISO 9001 standards and after working at 2 companies utilizing the same ISO standards I believe it does contribute to a better quality product.

i also am starting to think that once you get in the 50 hp and above sizes of chinese tractors there does seem to be less reports of problems. JMO and:2cents:


One other thing- ALL brands and manufacturers of chinese tractors get lumped into one forum.
That has to concentrate the problems somewhat. also being a member of CTOA I check every few weeks- and there aren't enough problems reported to make it worth reading any more often because there are so few posts.

oh and yes I still do like my chinese tractor

I have bought some disappointing chinese products also.
But, My Chinese tractor Is Not one of them...

 

[cford36]

Last year I bought a 60 HP Mercury 4 stroke outboard. The crate it came in said made in China. Unpacked it and motor also said made in China. Wasn't too happy but it looks like Mercury builds all their 4 strokes there now. No complaints with the motor, it's as good as my 2 stroke Mercury's that came from Wis. Chinese labor can make quality products when they use good components.

I think this kind of hits the point. "Made in China" means just that, assembled. (Very cheap labor) It does not mean they used Chinese parts. That is the biggest issue, use of cheap substandard parts that will not hold up over time.

 

[jix]

My friend, who is a muskie fisherman of note had a Merc 4 stroke 50 Hp. It failed because of a bad rod bearing very suddenly on a day two years ago. The failure was catastrophic to the crankshaft. Cost more to repair it than to replace it. He bought a replacement Evinrude, which cost more than a Merc. It has worked well. Made by Bombardier in Quebec.
He did not know that the Merc 4 stroke was made in china.
BRP makes good motors under the Evinrude name, in Canada.
I have had six Chinese 4 stroke motors which are Honda knockoff copies with interchangeable parts to the geniune Honda that are exact duplicatesi of the 9 to 13 Hp range. These motors are common on snowblowers etc. but their bearings, seals electrical parts etc are 100% Chinese made and assembled. They work well for about 100 hrs, then fall apart, leak, short corrode and generally fail in service, no matter how carefully maintained, Chinese Mfrs are in violation of many patents owned by bona fide patent holders, and these patent infringements are contrary to trade agreements, which the Chinese ignore. An anecdote I heard claimed that a whole shipload of these were seized and destroyed by the UK upon landing at a seaport in the UK by Honda legal action. Nevertheless these motors continue to be marketed in the USA under the Lifan name on the internet. They cost about 300 USD, whereas the real Honda motors sell at about a 1000 USD. with identical Honda model numbers. Our US import laws are being flouted by the Chinese with impunity, because China simply ignores the trade violations, treatie and internation patent law. (China does not recognize patents, apparently) Sony, and a few others actively exploits this and in consequence, Chinese made apparatus, under well known brand names is counterfeit.

The aircraft maintenance industry has recognized that nuts, bolts, critical components of airframes, is being jeopardized by the infiltration of counterfeit components bearing strength ratings, are not up to snuff. Grade 12 fasteners, for example are just short of Grade six fasteners. Many of thjses maintenance organizations now must recertify all replacement parts in critical area before they can be used, sine the counterfeit parts appear identical to the real items. In one truck fleet operastion with which I was mainrenance manager found that 100 % of the grade 12 fasteners were counterfeit. Our supplier was caslled in, did spec tests and scrapped 120,00 dollars worth of high-strength bolts that they had unwittingly supplied. That firm then scrapped every product held by its customers, and replaced them all. It almost bankrupted them, but they had no choice.

I left the industry before I ever learned how this scam had come about, so I do not know the explanation for how the counterfeit goods had been substituted into the wholesale supply system. My guess would be that one or more of the fastener mfrs were firms that had been bought out by Chinese-owned companies and then operated fraudulently thereafter, unbeknownst to the legitimate distributors.
One distributor, to my knowledge began destructive testing qualiiy control measures, thereafter on a batch basis, for all fasteners it sells.... and guarantees that all fasteners meet or exceeds strength ratings specified. In consequence, these fasteners have tripled in cost. A grade 12 bolt that had cost 11.00 now costs about 30.00.

Such is the effect of Chinese influence upon our US mfrg costs. Some bargain!

For legal reasons, I do not cite names, but buyers of high strength fasteners do know who can be trusted, and who cannot.
I do know that Bowden Fasteners ARE reliable, and quite pricey!

 

[GManBart]

I think this kind of hits the point. "Made in China" means just that, assembled. (Very cheap labor) It does not mean they used Chinese parts. That is the biggest issue, use of cheap substandard parts that will not hold up over time.

The problem with this is that sometimes it means assembled in China, and other times it means the parts were made their as well. Sure, there are big companies in China that make good products that are known to work well (Foxconn making Apple products for one), but there is a huge range in quality, and it's very hard, if not impossible, for the consumer to know which is which.