coil over angle help

[davedj1]

I know this is a tractor site but there are so many individuals that have a vast knowledge of things I thought I might be able to get some help/advice.

I have a Kawasaki Teryx side x side and I want it to ride and handle the trails better. The shocks have very stiff dampening. Anyway, I am thinking that if I move the lower shock mount in on the a-arms a little that it would take less force to move it upwards?

Another thing I am pondering, will the shock have more or less resistance in a more vertical arangement or less resistance at an angle? If at the angle, the more angle the easier they would move?

thanks and if i have this in an inapropriate area feel free to move it.
dave

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

I am not familar with your ride but one thing I do know is that you can't have a smooth ride and good handling. Are your shocks or springs adjustable. If the aren't you might see if adjustable shocks are available. Have you played with tire pressure.I would not move the shocks.
Bill

 

[davedj1]

the only adjustment is spring preload. To replace the shocks with anything that is decent will cost me about 2 grand! To move the shock mounts isn't realy that big of a deal but I don't know enough about the geometry to just go and move them and have them be wrong/worse. I guess I'll have to save my empties and wait for a good set of shocks.
thanks for the reply.
dave

 

[triptester]

Changing the shock mount location on the A-frame could increase stress leading to A-frame failure.

 

[David Devuono]

If I see correctly, this ATV uses Coil over Shock and fourwheel independant suspension. Google shows that some upgrades are longer A-arms with coil overs at quite an angle.

I think you have to look at two modes, if you have suspension adjusters, lower (soften) the spring settings for solo offroad fun and crank them back up for load carrying.

I had a Unimog for several years and it had the softest ride of any truck I ever owned, zero kick from the rear end on speed bumps and it could carry 3,300 lbs. What they did was install two coil springs at each side in the rear, an outer soft coil and an inner overload coil. There was about two inch suspension drop before the overloads kicked in.

If lowering the suspension through the adjusters, softens the ride, then it may not be all in the shock valving. I would look for an aftermarket coil spring with a series of tight coil spacing at one end and larger at the other end.

 

[AndyG]

moving the shock mounts in will also reduce side to side stability and the buggy will be more likely to roll over in a corner.

 

[jimgerken]

As others have said, your actions may have unforeseen results. But to answer your question, moving the shock mounting tab on the suspension arm in the direction closer to the frame pivot point will soften the ride. Try not to concentrate a bunch of welding along the top of the arm, that also will cause bad things to happen. Wear a helmet. Get some time on it, study the result. Be prepared to replace the parts you modified in case they fail. Used parts may be available for experimentation. Lots of guys will part out the ATVs when they can't sell them, your vehicle may have similar marketing. Good luck and post pics please...

 

[284 International]

I used to work in an off-road fabrication shop building race cars for things like the Baja 1000.

Laying a direct-mounted shock down gives progressively increasing resistance as the suspension compression. In other words, more angle means it is easier to compress at any point in the travel.

Angling the shock would do what you're wanting, and lower the effective spring rate at the tire. That will make the machine able to use more travel easier.

However, that may not be better. The issue is whether the machine rides roughly because it is too stiffly sprung, has too much damping, or not enough of either. (I know you said they have too much damping.) Overly stiff damping will make the ride worse by not letting the shock use the travel it should for the size impact it receives. Overly light damping will make the ride rough by letting the shock blow through the travel. Sometimes it is tricky to determine which problem is at hand.

What type of terrain and driving are you experiencing this? If it's a graded dirt road, that's a lot different suspension problem for a rough ride than a technical, rutted and rocky trail where you're trying to keep up with guys on dirt bikes.

I'd suggest looking for some take-off coilovers from Teryx Sport. They're adjustable for compression and rebound damping, and have a wide range of adjustment on the spring preload to set your ride height, possibly tuning the handling more to your preferences. They should be significantly cheaper than buying a new suspension system, and ought to bolt in.

 

[davedj1]

WOW! thanks for all the responses.
I have heard that the sport shocks aren't that much better.
I ride rough trails, mostly.

"Laying a direct-mounted shock down gives progressively increasing resistance as the suspension compression. In other words, more angle means it is easier to compress at any point in the travel. "

This was my line of thought as well. The stock shocks are valved stiff, you will never blow through the travel on one of them.

I have searched high and low for a replacement spring, I even called Iebach tech to see what all they had to offer. (nothing)

I don't necessarily have to move the shock mount on the a-arm, I could move it down on the frame, thereby giving me some lift and changing the angle at the same time?

I did lift it by moving the top of the shocks out about 1 3/4" (if you check out store-bought lifts you will see it's all they do) By moving the shock out, it put's it more verticle, and lifting the rig about 2" at the same time. If i reverse engineer things, move the upper shock mount down on the frame to get lift and lean the shock in a little, maybe it would help?

I can make the mounts so they won't interfere with the stock mounts so I can always go back to stock with/without the lift.
I have had the lift on for almost two years and at least 175 hrs so I know that's not an issue.

I don't use it to haul anything other than a few tools, spare tire and small kooler. It's just a toy for me.

I'll keep ya all posted if I do anything. and thanks

 

[284 International]

One thing you may be able to do is rebuild and revalve the shocks, or, at the least, put a lighter weight oil into the shocks. The sport version may be easier to do this with than yours, but I don't really know.

Lifting it may not be a good idea. For good handling, having some static sag in the suspension actually works better than having it topped out. If you're dealing with really rough rock-crawling type situations where clearance matters most, then look into lifting it, but otherwise handling will be better with a lower riding vehicle with more sag. If it's that rough, then ride smoothness won't matter anyway.

Spring rates and damping are sometimes related, and definitely complementary, but if your shocks are overdamped, that problem will remain whether you change to a lighter spring or not. In fact, the damping will actually overcome the spring rate change, and be more of an issue.

Have you tried running it with the top of the shocks in the factory position? If you haven't, put them back. (If you have oversize tires requiring the clearance, then you're kind of stuck.) I bet it will ride and handle better with the shock in the factory position than it will if moved to a more vertical position. The Teryx seems to get good reviews for its factory suspension: Frequently things like "the best" all-around, or non-racing suspension on a UTV are heard. I don't know, I've never driven one, but they aren't a Mule.

Suspension threads are kind of like oil threads, where everybody has an opinion, and nobody agrees on anything, especially since there is also much subjectivity at play: What feels too mushy on big jumps too me may feel plush on the small stuff to you.

I would really recommend running things at the factory settings, though, with the preload backed all the way off. Put a wrap of tape on the shock shaft and see if you're using all the travel or not. Sometimes things feel too stiff when they are actually too soft. Start from known factory settings and work your way out from there, documenting and demonstrating as you go. If you don't want to mess with it, try putting a load in the back and seeing if it gets better or worse at the same speed on the same road, and so forth.