Cold Weather Starting

[davitk]

I just have to ask john bud a question that I've thought about for a couple of years.
I've watch Packers games on tv for years and theres always a group in the stands with no shirts on, now some of them look like they have some self insulation but still when it's snowing it can't help much.
Question is, does your state have some kind of special anti freeze these people drink or are they people that have moved in from Calif?

It is actually a little known but oh so true fact that a conspiracy was hatched decades ago by the neked men, that while they do in fact feel the cold it is well worth the pain for the fact that they are desensitizing the women with high hopes they too will follow suit - suitless - jerseyless, whatever.

 

[Egon]

Piloon; in times of real need for starting heat I have thrown a tarp over the tractor and placed an electric heater with fan directed at the engine under the tarp. It worked very well as all the hydraulics were warm.

 

[PILOON]

Egon;
I was aware of that trick as that was the method used to start aircraft engines in the artic.
They used fuel fired herman nelson 50,000 BTU heaters for heat plus they would preheat the spark plugs otherwise the plugs would frost over and prevent sparking.
Back in those days the pilots would sleep with the plugs in the sleeping bag!

 

[hondo964]

Thanks for all the suggestions; they are very helpful.

A question for john bud.....What is "untreated #2" ??? And by "new diesel" do you mean the newer low sulfur diesel fuel?

 

[Mech]

1. what's cold weather? As you know, cold weather to Texans is warm to Minnesotans. I suspect "cold weather" is below freezing.

2.Is there a certain temperature where it is good/effective to start using the block heater? Should I always use the block heater for cold weather starts.
QUOTE]

Since a diesel fires by compressing the air/fuel mixture your altitude is involved also. At my house, 8600 feet, anything below about 75 degrees requires cold weather start procedures. On my 790 that involves using the intake heater or remembering to plug in the block heater.

 

[RalphVa]

If my tractor had a block heater, I'd go out and plug it in if the temp was below 30 F for about 30 minutes before wanting to start it.

My wife usually only plugs the ole 25 year old Benz in if outside temps go down around 20 F. This is with it in the garage. On a car, it's nice, because you get instant heat inside the car when you get in.

My 4010 starts fine in the winter here with temp sometimes down around 10 F, long as I glow it for about 4-6 seconds and run the throttle up about half way.

Ralph

 

[john_bud]

Thanks for all the suggestions; they are very helpful.

A question for john bud.....What is "untreated #2" ??? And by "new diesel" do you mean the newer low sulfur diesel fuel?

Petroleum Diesel come in 2 flavors. No, not rootbeer and grape! It's #2 and #1. There are other flavors too, but those are the most common. #2 is the normal stuff you get at the pump. In the winter they add stuff to keep it flowing by depressing the cloud point. Those additives "treat" the fuel. So, untreated #2 is what you would buy in the summer. They may also dilute the #2 with #1 diesel. That is a much lighter fuel with less BTU per gallon, but it is also not prone to gel and can actually dissolve the crystals that form when #2 clouds. Fuel becomes what's called cloudy when it gets cold and the long chain hydrocarbons start to solidify into crystals. You get a lot of them forming and the fuel is said to gel. The fuel filter will catch the crystals and become clogged up. The stuff looks like snot and has the consistency of it too, which is why they call it gel. They like to use #1 as it is cheaper than additives.

Yes, new diesel is the ULSD. When it first came out there were a lot of problems with it in cold weather. Some speculation was that it did not respond to the normal treatment chemicals in the same way as the old low sulpher diesel. I think that was correct speculation.

 

[hondo964]

Thanks....I think I understand....fascinating as always....although as usual the answer has led to more questions:

I get my diesel from the corner gas station.....so I take it that I am never getting #1 straight from the pump - only #2 (or #2 treated with #1 in the winter).

What's #1?

How do you know when they have treated #2 ? (so you don't double-treat it when you add your own).

Do they ever treat #2 with something other than #1?

Where does biodiesel fit in with all this? I spoke to a service manager at a JD dealer and he warned me about biodiesel; said it turned acidic if you keep it for any length of time.

 

[john_bud]

Thanks....I think I understand....fascinating as always....although as usual the answer has led to more questions:

I get my diesel from the corner gas station.....so I take it that I am never getting #1 straight from the pump - only #2 (or #2 treated with #1 in the winter).

What's #1?

How do you know when they have treated #2 ? (so you don't double-treat it when you add your own).

Do they ever treat #2 with something other than #1?

Where does biodiesel fit in with all this? I spoke to a service manager at a JD dealer and he warned me about biodiesel; said it turned acidic if you keep it for any length of time.

More Q's are how you learn!

#1 is often called kerosene. Light clear, very "dry" has little lubricity to it.

The stations are supposed (maybe by law????) to treat the fuel so it will match the temperature. But, like I said earlier, that costs $$ so they try and just barely match the temps. Some times they get caught -- and we suffer. If you ask the pump jockey they will be able to tell you what temperature the fuel is treated to and by what date. At least around here they have a schedule with that information inside.

They often treat #2 with pour point depressants and cloud point depressants as well as #1. As far as I understand it (not an expert!!) each refinery may be different. Especially when you factor in the pollution control laws that mandate additives.

Bio is made from soy products and by home brewers using waste veg oil. It has excellent lubricity and astounding cleaning properties. It will clean all the junk from the tank and clog your filter up fast the first couple uses. That's one knock, but also a long term benefit after the short term pain. The other is it has a higher cloud point than #2 and is treated differently.

The stuff from the station is "supposed" to be usable in your vehicle with no additive or mixing by the customer. Supposed to. Yeah, in a perfect world. In reality, it doesn't work that way. That's why I use Howes. Other people use other chemicals.

jb

 

[jbrumberg]

jb is "right on" with his opinions IMHO. My local station runs around 50% kerosene with its ULSD in the winter which does raise its cost. I also add an additive at double strength in the winter. I use Power Service (White Bottle). I have not had gelling problems since the station and I made "adjustments" to the fuel mix. I tend to buy my fuel where all the local operators buy their ULSD. Jay