crazy steel prices - should I import from China?

[wwwfarmer]

I recently bough a s355 steel pipe for 3.3€/kg (~1.8USD/pound). I only needed 4 feet and the full implement weighted only 300 pounds so I didn't complain too much. On the other hand, if I were making a 2000 pound subsoiler (on my bucket list), then the current price of steel is unacceptable.

In the news I heard a lot about EU anti-dumping tax and how EU manufacturers can't compete with Chinese steel (of course they can't, the taxes are crazy here) which got me thinking that steel from china can't be that bad if so much steel is imported that a new tax was invented. Steel price on alibaba is 600USD per ton or lower. It costs around 600USD to import 1m3(~7 tons) to EU and probably very similar for US. Even after customs duty, anti-dumping tax and VAT, the final price of imported steel is still under 1€/kg(~0.5USD/pound).

Whats your take on imported steel? Have you ever tried buying steel on alibaba?

 

[texasranger556]

Are you factoring in shipping to/from the port of entry, broker, dock charges, etc? A couple years ago I looked into this for crated finished goods (Chinese CO2 laser table), and the very attractive price advertised online isn't nearly as good once all the extra fees are paid.

Also shipping container prices from China to US are about 3x the cost pre covid last I saw, west coast US to east coast US shipping costs is up that much or more also. So my guess would be the raw materials aren't driving the prices up as much as transportation is.

 

[MikeFarm]

Consider what metallurgical alloy do you require and what guarantee do you have that it will be as stated on the supplied technical specifications. A Google search (e.g. non compliant chinese steel) will bring up instances of non-complying Chinese steel. It is a world wide problem, there have been problems in Australia as well as other countries. If its for personal use then perhaps that's fine. I would suggest to stick with your nationally manufactured steel.

 

[etpm]

I own a machine shop and we machine all sorts of steel alloys. I try very hard to avoid any metals from China. The other shop owners that I know do the same. I have customers that specify metals with non-Asian origin. I must provide documentation that shows country of origin. Steels from China tend to be non-homogenous. Hard areas and soft areas. Free machining alloys that have "gummy" areas. Stainless steels that have spots that rust. Chinese steel can be that bad and worse. So I avoid it. My customers avoid it.
Eric

 

[Sportsman762]

Tariffs are part of my day job.
Remember that there are section 232 tariffs on steel right now, plus section 301 tariffs, and they do stack if importing from China.
Assuming the HTS code is 7304.19.5080 Tubes, pipes and hollow profiles, seamless, of iron (other than cast iron) or steel / Of other alloy steel / Having an outside diameter exceeding 406.4 mm
hts.usitc.gov
normal duty is free.
section 232 is 25%
Section 301 is 15%
Total duties are 40%

The above is true for all diameters, I guessed on which one to use.

This is for steel of suspect quality, without factoring in shipping charges. Shipping charges are getting closer to 4X 2019 costs, if you can even find a spot on the ship. LCL (less than container loads) are even crazier now. It is taking forever to get containers in, had a ship wait 20 days before unloading in Galveston, then it was 12 more to get it via rail to Memphis, then another 23 days to get a truck out of Memphis to take it 1 hour away to our warehouse. Stuff is just nuts right now. And China is easier to get stuff out of then Italy, and way better than India.

You would have to be getting it for below scrap price to even justify bringing over steel right now. The current administration has not shown any apatite to remove the tariffs put in place by the prior administration. (I am not wanting to turn this into a political debate on tariffs or anything else!)

 

[K5lwq]

I have a small container coming. Shipping and duty fees $13,300 and that is subject to increase. That is 3 times the price in 2019.

 

[Wyobuckaroo]

I own a machine shop and we machine all sorts of steel alloys. I try very hard to avoid any metals from China. The other shop owners that I know do the same. I have customers that specify metals with non-Asian origin. I must provide documentation that shows country of origin. Steels from China tend to be non-homogenous. Hard areas and soft areas. Free machining alloys that have "gummy" areas. Stainless steels that have spots that rust. Chinese steel can be that bad and worse. So I avoid it. My customers avoid it.
Eric

++ ++ ++
When I ran, had tool and die shops I always required and kept material certification documents and stub bar ends that all shipped to the customer at there expense with the parts..

Even with all this in place, occasionally there were mistakes made in material documentation, testing and such.. Even a possible case of deliberate fraud up the supply food chain from my supplier..

This level of documentation was necessary as at times one of the parts we produced was AR 15 bolts, and other bar stock products..

 

[Renze]

I own a machine shop and we machine all sorts of steel alloys. I try very hard to avoid any metals from China. The other shop owners that I know do the same. I have customers that specify metals with non-Asian origin. I must provide documentation that shows country of origin. Steels from China tend to be non-homogenous. Hard areas and soft areas. Free machining alloys that have "gummy" areas. Stainless steels that have spots that rust. Chinese steel can be that bad and worse. So I avoid it. My customers avoid it.
Eric

I work in the excavator modification business, and we avoid Chinese steel too. Even Chinese bolts arent trusted to mount a slew bearing, on average they meet the norm but some are hard, some are soft, you just cant rely on Chinese produce.

Well, their steel is good for ballast...

 

[rScotty]

I was involved in basic metal fab shops for decades before switching over into engineering. The trade off between price and quality is one old, old story and something that every small business owner has to decide for themself. And then purchase accordingly.
The problem with deliberatly fradulent material certs is more recent - but basically just one more thing for price versus quality to have to deal with.

My opinion is that in the long term poor quality issues end up costing far more than short term material price savings can justify.

Incoming material quality is an area where large corporations have a huge advantage over the small shops. I think that's a pity, but that's just my bias.

 

[Renze]

The trade off between price and quality is one old, old story and something that every small business owner has to decide for themself. And then purchase accordingly.

For basic stuff like wheelbarrows or fences or computer casings, who cares. But whereever product liability comes around...load bearing structures... we dont want Chinese steel.