creative installation ideas for frost free hydrants?

[ampsucker]

well, i am finally tackling a slow, underground water main leak i have had in the yard for over a year. i used the BX to dig up the area after i had left the water turned off for three days. so far i have found at least two leaks and am still scanning for a third.

i made a rookie mistake by allowing a little muddy gravel to find it's way into the pipe while i had it cut apart repairing one leak. i have now been rewarded by having to replace two toilet fill valves and clean out two under the sink shut off valves all clogged with gravel!

anyway, one of the next steps will be to reinstall a frost free hydrant. i have done several of these, all in different ways, and wanted to get some ideas of how others have done this.

my usual approach is to incorporate the shut off valve close to the hydrant and then build up some type of empty tube that allows me to access the shut off valve for maintenance.

in the past i have used:

*landscaping timbers to build a square box in the ground large enough to enclose the shut off valve and the hydrant, then built a wooden lid to hold the top of the hydrant secure so it wouldn't stress the plumbing in the ground. eventually the timbers rotted but it took a long time.

*treated deck boards to build a box. expect 10-20 years of service.

*chimney tile as a box w/ wooden lid fitted to top of tile to secure hydrant

*synthetic deck boards to build a box (most expensive option but expect longer than 20 years service)

etc.

all are usually filled with loose insulation (not good if it gets wet which it always does) or my new favorite solution, screwing 1.5 - 2" thick blueboard foam sheets to the inside walls to insulate.

if starting from scratch, my usual approach now is to use galvanized 3/4 pipe for the T and at least a two foot "nipple" of metal pipe on each end going away from the frost free hydrant before switching back to PVC or whatever i am connecting to under ground. this gives the hydrant more strength and resists cracking of the PVC that can happen if the hydrant gets yanked around, hit with tractor, etc.

these have all been functional allowing access to the below ground plumbing for basic shut off and repair services and making digging easier if required to replace pipe or patch holes.

i think for this next project i am looking for something fancier. it will be close to our back porch which gets a lot of use during BBQ, family summer outings, etc. i was thinking of incorporating a sink or some type of cooking platform to the hydrant so we can clean veggies, rinse off, get drinking water, etc. maybe a nice cobblestone or paver platform around it with a drain to catch excess water?

so, anybody with experience or ideas, share your pics or descriptions of frost free hydrants you have done. i'm always looking for ways to improve my method and would really like some creative input from TBNers who have done something like this.

any ideas on how to get easy access to the plumbing and for maintenance of the hydrant and parts below it would be great, too!

thanks in advance! i'll try to post up pics of the project tomorrow.

amp

 

[DanD78]

Find a place that sells supplies to city water systems. They make a curb box that is a hollow tube leading down to a valve. You stick a rod down the hole to open and close the valve. It also has a tamper proofe cover that can be set flush with the ground so you can mower over it. I like the Merrell any flow hydrants. The valve can be serviced from the top with out digging the hydrant up. I have 5 on my place the oldest about 12 years. One is used every day and never had a problem yet

Dan

 

[tommu56]

I use a piece of 4" pipe and cut some rigid insulation to fit snuggly in the top 12" and put a pipe cap in it cut a disk of ply wood about 1/2" smaller than pipe put 2 holes in it and fish a rope through disk and insulation and put knots on bottom of disk.

force this down in pipe use rope to pull it out when needed put cap on to keep critters and dirt out

cut a u out of pipe to go over the run so it extends a couple of inches below run and fill that area with stone to act as a drain

tom

 

[PILOON]

Any major plumbing wholesaler will have the city type hydrant valves in stock
(not big box stores).
Installation is real simple except that the fittings are not quite standard as we know them, so be sure to get mating connectors to fit your water line.
I have used them on blue 1 inch water pump line rather than city mains copper due to very high copper costs.

 

[charlz]

For the valve use a piece of 4" pvc or abs pipe and put a threaded cap on the top end. As noted cut a U in the bottom to fit over the pipe and keep dirt from coming in around the valve.

I think I have seen the water meter valves at the Home Depot here, they definitely have the key to turn the valves. You can also get a different key that fits in the handle of a regular shut off valve.

 

[ampsucker]

thanks for all the ideas, so far.

i have been looking locally for a "sleeve" solution big enough for a hydrant and shutoff valve. i'm afraid 4" pvc isn't going to be large enough. i was thinking something a bit more "man sized" so i can get into it and make repairs and possibly mount a table/sink for the hydrant to flow into on the topside.

i found a 24" poly/ABS meter housing at the local plumbing supply. they want $86 for the housing and another 50 for the bolt on lid. i would probably make my own lid out of treated lumber and then could mount the above ground bits to that w/ wood screws. another option i found is a 4' long section of 30" galvanized culvert pipe for $75. i think it would easily be large enough to work in if necessary ( i could actually stand up in it w/ the hydrant, etc.) as well as mount a nice lid w/ sink, etc. onto the top.


any other thoughts or ideas???? one of my pet peeves with most yard hydrants is they splash mud all over your shoes and there is no place to set a bucket while filling unless you trust the little "hook" on the hydrant to hold the 5 gallon bucket or watering can or whatever while filling. it flat out won't work w/ a 2 gallon pump sprayer as there is nothing to hang it on while filling. that is why i think a little drain pipe with a floor drain or something or a nice outdoor sink basin would be a nice touch.

amp

 

[jenkinsph]

Below grade I use a ball valve curbstop with a street key and slip a 3" or 4" pipe over it for access, deep is good. Buy a good valve to start with it will save digging up later and as suggested add brass nipples to each side of valve to arrest torque. I have had good luck with McDonald and Ford brand valves.

For the bottom support on hydrants I typically weld an elbow or tee to a piece of 1/4" plate about 12"x12" square, this provides good support for the pipe and faucet. I also slip a piece of pvc pipe over the hydrant to sleeve it before installing it, this runs from the bottom of the elbow or tee to ground level. Makes removing, repair and replacement a much easier task. When I can find the ready made hydrant blocks I buy them instead of making my own.

How long the hydrants last depends on maintenance and water quality best I can tell. Merril makes a decent hydrant as mentioned above, it is competitive but not above average in quality. You should put your ear to them on a regular basis to listen for leaks because if you don't catch a leak soon enough it will cut the seat.

 

[jenkinsph]

ampsucker,
A short garden hose (five footer) should resolve those issues.

 

[galen1115]

I have put in 5 hydrants on my place and they all still work, going on 20 years. I drove over one this last winter and bent it 90 degrees. Doesn't leak though. I install with about a 5 gallon bucket of gravel around the base for drain back. When I put a shut off valve close I do what has been said already. 4" pvc notched to saddle the line. Cut it off even with the ground. Or I'll leave it up about 6" above ground. (preferred) I don't like putting half my tractor or trucks weight on the pipe if I happen to drive over it when the ground is wet. That pushes down on your water line. I also just use a T post to give the hydrant support. Never use galvanized pipe in the ground. Never! This talk about servicing your hydrant and all, you should install that thing and forget it.

 

[ampsucker]

interesting idea to sleeve the hydrant with pvc. never thought of that one!

i have tried using sand to pack around the base for drainback. big mistake. sand kept finding it's way back into the drain hole eventually fouling the valve seat. have had better luck with large creek gravel if packing around the hydrant, but find that makes it very difficult to dig up again. now i just build the box and leave it open for the backdrain water to just absorb into the ground. i also find that attaching a short piece of rubber hose to the back drain and diverting the water away from the piping helps control rust a bit.

here's a pic of the hole in the backyard.

amp