Dealer Service

[rScotty]

All of the above true unless your intended use is business... at least here.

Contractors have had to dump or repower fleets of off road diesel powered equipment from tractors to chippers... actually bolstered value of the equivalent gasoline powered equipment such as chippers.

AG is a little bit of a gray area but even irrigation pumps and generators are targeted...

Yes, that's interesting. We've all heard about California's policy requiring replacing old style engines with new ones, but I don't think the other 49 states take it very seriously. It sounds far-fetched and questionably effective. Certainly there is doesn't seem to be talk about other states following suit - even among enviromentalists. California politics are unique.

My own feeling is mandating engine swaps seems to be a politically-driven policy designed to increase profit to dealers and industry rather than any advantage in emissions reductions. Plus, it's arguable whether California got their total emissions arithmetic right.
I haven't seen a detailed accounting, but I suspect the eco-benefit is small if it exists at all.

rScotty

 

[5030]

Yes, that's interesting. We've all heard about California's policy requiring replacing old style engines with new ones, but I don't think the other 49 states take it very seriously. It sounds far-fetched and questionably effective. Certainly there is doesn't seem to be talk about other states following suit - even among enviromentalists. California politics are unique.

My own feeling is mandating engine swaps seems to be a politically-driven policy designed to increase profit to dealers and industry rather than any advantage in emissions reductions. Plus, it's arguable whether California got their total emissions arithmetic right.
I haven't seen a detailed accounting, but I suspect the eco-benefit is small if it exists at all.

rScotty

Actually Scotty, Kubota's policy is, if you 'lunch an engine and it has to be replaced, they require the dealer to make the old one inoperative as in breaking the block with a sledge hammer. I don't know if the replacement engine has to be a more emissions compliant one or not however. Seen that play out and the dealership I work at part time... Never blown one up so I cannot say for sure and I don't want to. New engines are expensive...

 

[ultrarunner]

Doing work in the city it has become a big deal for backhoes, dump trucks, chippers, graders, etc...

Some of the biggest firms now only lease...

Small mom.and pops folded like my friends... All bought new equipment meticulously maintained rendered obsolete but ok to be sold out if state... even legal to get a one way trip permit to the Stateline.

AG does have some wiggle room.

I have Onan Cummins Prime Mover Hospital Generators circa 1995 and the click is ticking... 600 hours and soon no longer legal to operate... and the annual permit and monitoring costs continue to increase... someone has to come out to read the hour meter...

 

[rScotty]

Actually Scotty, Kubota's policy is, if you 'lunch an engine and it has to be replaced, they require the dealer to make the old one inoperative as in breaking the block with a sledge hammer. I don't know if the replacement engine has to be a more emissions compliant one or not however. Seen that play out and the dealership I work at part time... Never blown one up so I cannot say for sure and I don't want to. New engines are expensive...

5030, I think we may be talking about two different types of repair/replacement. From what I recall from previous postings here on TBN, the California requirement was originally going to go farther than just repairing or replacing a vintage engine with the same unit. Now that California's policy has been in force for awhile, maybe Ultrarunner can fill us in on how it works. From his sig line, he seems to be have a few old beaters.
rScotty

 

[ultrarunner]

It's a phase out of non compliant diesel power begining at 25hp.

It really hit non compliant over the road tractors doing business with the ports... no emission certification no entry.

Municipalities have been getting rid of non compliant diesel power as the regs phase in.

Some can be retrofitted or repowered but many the decision was simple... retire out it state or off shore.

The ban on two-stroke is different but affects other segments and then many items such as mowers generators cannot be sold here...

I don't think it is going away and with the ban on ICE passenger sales in the future the legislature has spoken...

 

[5030]

ICE passenger sales in the future the legislature has spoken...

Again, I won't be around when that all transpires anyway.

 

[5030]

he seems to be have a few old beaters.

Both my Kubota's could be classified as vintage or 'beaters' but neither one is beat, just old as in 2002 and 2004. I keep them in tip top condition, they lead a pampered life. They both should outlast me.

 

[Hay Dude]

It seems that buying a good used tractor from 10 or 20 years ago - or more - when things were made to be owner serviced & repaired would answer all of your concerns. There are lots of those good used ones out there. In fact, they are all still out there, they are still young by tractor standards, and they will do all the same work in the same way with the same accessories and comfort as newer ones.

The only things that have changed technologically in the tractor world in the last 40 years has been a movement by manufacturers to make dealer service a necessity instead of an option, and also the addition of more emission controls. Those changes are not advantages to the owner. And other than those things, tractors are pretty much unchanged for decades now.

So I'm puzzled. Why would you even consider buying new?
rScotty

Thats exactly what I do.
Early 2000’s-2012 tractors have lots of creature comforts, yet don’t have the extreme complexity of the ones built after 2012

 

[rScotty]

Thats exactly what I do.
Early 2000’s-2012 tractors have lots of creature comforts, yet don’t have the extreme complexity of the ones built after 2012

And that's also exactly what I do. Mine are all pre-2012 and I simply maintain them and use then within their specs. They are worked but not stressed. I expect they will all outlast me and would be astounded if one broke.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if they last just as well for the next generation. No reason why not.
rScotty

 

[5030]

It appears to me that manufacturers are making them more and more complex just so you cannot fix them without professional intervention. JD seems to be very guilty of that today. The main reason why I don't want one of the new electronic controlled tractors. Bad enough dealing with that on automobiles but, at least with cars, you can access the electronic controls with the industry standard OBD connector and a good scan tool. Not so with tractors. Every make has a unique connector and the standard OBD scanner won't work.