Def or re-gen in Case or NH?

[elkhurst1]

Hello all,
I've been considering buying a new tractor and not sure what tier 4 system to buy, re-gen or def?
I own a couple NH TN tractors now that aren't as emissions restricted that haven't been bad tractors. But in the world we live in today, buying a (new) tractor, we have to deal with emissions!!
A local dealership just took on the CaseIh line and I took a look at the Farmall 75c. Appeared to be a fairly nice tractor comparable to my TN75da but with a re-gen system on it. Stepping up to a Farmall 90c (in which the dealership didn't have in stock) you get into a DEF emissions tractor.
The company I work for bought a small Massey tractor just to mow grounds with that has a re-gen system that's been nothing but problems!
Not sure if comparing Massey to CNH is comparing apples to apples or not, but I want to buy something with the least amount of problems.
I realize Case and NH are twin brothers, but what are the comparable NH models to the Case Farmall 75c and 90c machines, and do I go with re-gen or DEF?

 

[WM75Guy]

I will be shortly signing for a new NH Workmaster 75. I also looked at the Powerstar 75, which is the NH equivalent of the 75C. All use DOC, diesel oxidation catalyst, which does not require regen or DEF. I also looked at the JD 5075E, Massey 4607, and Kubota M7060. The lack of need for regen or DEF played a big part in the decision to go with NH again. The Workmaster was also the lowest price but not by much.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

We sell all these systems, they all work about the same. I'd not consider it when making a purchase.

 

[boomer1025]

Looks to me like you have 2 very good tractors now without all the emission crap to worry about. If there in good shape and service the needs you have why buy a new tractor ?
Sometimes new is not better then what you have.
EGR, Re-gen and DEF stay far away from, just to many problems down the road in my opinion. I seen all the problems in OTR equipment.
If you need farm income deductions then buy equipment to use with the tractors you have.

 

[deserteagle71]

We sell all these systems, they all work about the same. I'd not consider it when making a purchase.

Exactly! When I was shopping around, that's what I realized. All of them require the engine to be run at higher rpms to keep the exhaust hot enough for the catalyst or DPF to work.

Here is a quote from the brochure for the T4.75 New Holland that used the catalyst: "The simplest system around, it requires minimal operator intervention with fewer occurrences of regeneration that competitors with a Diesel Particulate Filter".

Bottom line - if you buy a Tier IV tractor you will have to put up with regeneration.

 

[fried1765]

Exactly! When I was shopping around, that's what I realized. All of them require the engine to be run at higher rpms to keep the exhaust hot enough for the catalyst or DPF to work.

Here is a quote from the brochure for the T4.75 New Holland that used the catalyst: "The simplest system around, it requires minimal operator intervention with fewer occurrences of regeneration that competitors with a Diesel Particulate Filter".

Bottom line - if you buy a Tier IV tractor you will have to put up with regeneration.

My answer:
Buy a used pre-emissions tractor in reasonably good condition.
Then:
Repair, rebuild, repaint,.... as desired.
Continue to live a life free of frustration.

 

[RickB]

We do not see much difference between the two systems in the NH Powerstar 75 and the larger 90-115s. If I were choosing between a Workmaster 75 and Powerstar 75 I would choose the Powerstar. There are differences in the Powerstar chassis as well as the emissions systems. 90 and up have several differences from 75s.

 

[elkhurst1]

I appreciate everyone's input. These emission options are a bit confusing as to which is best and having the least amount of problems down the road.
At this point I'm not sure there is a clear choice?? And I agree, shiny-new isn't always better!
The jury is still out, but I'm starting to think that maybe a wintertime makeover on my existing machine is the better way to go!!

 

[ericm979]

Tier 4 has different levels, depending on the engine HP. Under 25.5hp, 25.5-75hp, and above 75hp. For each level the emissions limits are lower per HP. In practice that means that machines under 25.5hp don't need DPF or DOC and can use mechanical fuel injection. Under 75hp they have DOC or DPF or both and usually EFI. Above 75hp they have all that and DEF.

 

[Grumpycat]

The magic acronyms are DOC, DPF, and SCR. That is the order of progression both down the exhaust from engine and for increasing emission control requirements.

DOC is a relatively simple oxidizing catalyst optimized for diesel. It targets cancerous components of diesel exhaust.

DPF is the cigarette butt. Traps larger soot particles. If kept hot the particles burn in the DPF and exit too small to see. There will be no black soot in a DPF exhaust pipe. If too much soot accumulates then back pressure will signal the ECU that a regeneration cycle is needed to burn the soot out. Perhaps this can be achieved at max RPM no load but most road trucks dump raw fuel to burn the thing out. This is the most annoying and troublesome component. A really big problem is if direct injection is used when exhaust valve is open to dump raw fuel for regeneration. This fuel tends to wash the cylinder walls (bad for wear), get past the rings, and dilute the oil.

SCR is the Selective Catalyst Reactor, primarily for oxides of nitrogen. An ammonia group is needed to complete the reaction hence the need for DEF, Diesel Exhaust Fluid. DEF is relatively cheap.

EGR and turbochargers are necessary to keep combustion in necessary ranges for the above systems to operate correctly. Multiple pulse direct injection is also widely used for additional combustion control and efficiency.

I would worry more about a 70 HP tractor claiming to meet Tier IV without DPF than I would about one that went ahead and used the DPF. With DPF the exhaust no longer stinks like a diesel.