Buying Advice Diesel smog emission stuff?

   / Diesel smog emission stuff? #121  
In the pickup world it seems like DEF solved a few issues.

If I had a tractor with emissions I'd prefer if it had DEF and kept itself clean. Otherwise I'd look at eliminating the system.
DEF is just an additive component to a DOC, DPF, EGR, Soot trap, Exhaust back pressure flap and sometimes other components. It all depends on the hp and tail pipe readings of the engine. DEF is used to lower nitros oxide primarily. The DPF is still there to collect and hold until the engine sees a large enough pressure differential pre and post. Then it starts a regen procedure.

On most small tractors if you run them 1800 rpm or more you shouldn't need a regen very often, 25-50 hours is average. They usually take 5-20 mins. No need for W.O.T. just raised RPM. If the tractor is started and stopped a lot and short tripped it's going to regen far more. But the DPF is replaceable and cleanable. Easily in most tractors. There have been exceptions (B3350 Kubota)

The main reasons I moved to a 40hp cabbed Kioti are winter, summer humidity, bugs, and no more breathing diesel particulates which are incredibly bad for you. I know. I've run a specialty diesel shop for over 20 years and have serious asthma and other issues from the exposure. And a last thing, def is used in anything 75+ hp.
 
   / Diesel smog emission stuff? #122  
All I can tell you for sure is that the DPF/regen system on my RK55 has been the Bain on my existence. 400 hours and it's lost power for the 4th time. RK's service sucks and the problem is, it won't go into regenerate mode due to corrosion on some part of the mother board contacts and they don't show where.

I've just found an x TYM dealer that will work on it and if nothing else, at least I hope to have found a reliable service source that doesn't let you tractor sit for 2 months.

No matter what you decide, don't buy an RK brand tractor no matter how attractive the features/ price are. It's just not worth the hassle.

75 acres of mostly woods, hills, trail maintenance, wood splitting, log hauling brush hogging, gravel spreading, compost turning, round bale moving, cow crap scooping. Most of my work is done in the 2000 rpm range.
 
   / Diesel smog emission stuff? #123  
My Dad bought us a B2650 because it was as large as he could go without Emissions equipment. In the years since, he has learned that the Re-Gen cycles are not that bad on the midsized tractors and they don't even drop power while doing it. He regrets not getting a larger tractor at the time.

Decide what you want to DO with your tractor, then get the tractor that will fit that requirement.

"My tractor has too much power"
-Nobody
 
   / Diesel smog emission stuff? #124  
If I'm not mistaken, if you stay under 99 pto horsepower, DEF injection is not required, just a DPF or selective catalyst reduction and the DPF filter is removable, in fact it has to be renewed after so many regens. Problem is, the EPA states that the residue contained inside the DPF is considered a hazardous substance and must be removed and sent to a hazardous waste landfill. I never knew incinerated carbon was hazardous but what do I know. My rub with T4 final engines is the have to renew the DPF cannister. They ain't cheap so some owner (original or successive) gets stuck with the renewal bill.
My Yanmar YT359C has a 5000 hr rating on the DPF
 
   / Diesel smog emission stuff? #125  
Well, I'm glad to have this information though I don't think it applies to me, since I never heard of this emissions stuff (25 hp Mahindra three years old). But I want to say that the HST is wonderful. I can brush-hog while backing up! With my late father-in-law's International Harvester I would have had to wait until the mower stopped turning before shifting gears. It's the one thing I don't miss in that wonderful machine, which I now wish I'd had repaired whatever the cost.

Interesting stuff. Thank you all!
 
   / Diesel smog emission stuff? #126  
They ain't cheap so some owner (original or successive) gets stuck with the renewal bill.
I suspect the only people that would worry about this are those trying to trade in their tractor. My guess is that most would find a way to defeat/modify/remove the filter and when/if selling would do so on the open market.

Until the EPA starts inspecting CUTs most won't worry about it.
 
   / Diesel smog emission stuff? #127  
There's one person on here that keeps repeating I would never have
a hydro tractor the lost of hp is too high. Most people on here could
care less as a gear tractor is almost worthless for what they want!
Technology has come a long ways and hydro's are more efficient than
they were years ago also who would want to clutch and shift when you
can just step on a pedal and go forward or backward?????!

When I have to regen I am usually running near the rpm's required to
regen and I don't stop just to regen I keep working.
IMHO if you have to regen quite often I would check your thermostat
and change it to 200 degree's F.

willy
Yanmar's I-HMT transmission in my YT359C acts like a hydo but is way more efficient.
 
   / Diesel smog emission stuff? #128  
A couple of things that I have not seen addressed.
1) focus on the size of tractor that meets your needs. The only need I have seen expressed was to fit between trees. This to me is a biggie but not the only one. You mention a cab—will that limit you in your height (tractor size) to fit in locations-under tree limbs? Inside storage location? Any other issues you need to consider—make a list of planned activities, talk to friends/neighbors about task.
2) it amazes me the people that have commented that seem to run their tractors at low RPM’s. Tractors are designed to run at 540 PTO RPM’s—yes you probably want to warm up at lower and cool off at lower RPM’s, but work is intended to be done at high RPM’s—you will have better hydro flow, rated HP is most likely at 540 PTO RPM-this is likely near the regen RPM level as well )my tractor is much older than tier IV) I have no personal experience with regen.
3)In my conversations with people over the years I have never encountered anyone that has said ‘I wish I had less HP’. Some have said they wish they had a smaller tractor (which would often mean less HP). This usually is because of a need to fit somewhere—shed where they want to store the tractor, between trees and such.
All that said once tractor frame size is determined, I suggest get as much HP within that size as possible.
 
   / Diesel smog emission stuff? #129  
DPF equipped tractors produce only ~ 1% of the cancer and smog producing diesel particulates which are produces by ~ 25-horsepower diesel tractors without DPFs.

Turbocharging an L2501 so it produces 200 times as much pollution as a 33-39 horsepower, DPF equipped Kubota tractor should be a crime.

If you need > 25-horsepower buy a DPF equipped, legal machine.

I'm dumbfounded by this comment. I think its great that this guy put a turbo on his 2501. Perhaps you should be buying a fresh supply of N95 masks for the upcoming election year Covid hysteria again, and get injected with the latest greatest boosters because that's what the government says. What I see are many old time farmers that lived into their 90's despite decades of planting, tilling, and harvesting on open station tractors with old smoky diesels.

Depends on what you're "upgrading". IDI (Indirect Injection) engines aren't very accommodating for increasing power: there are some exceptions; I really only know of one: Mercedes OM606 [and that family]. Don't know about tractors and turbos (but I _DO_ know a little about such with road vehicles) but there's more than just adding a turbo- was the bottom end designed/spec'd to handle the increased torque, can the exhaust (and intake) really handle the increased flows and are you really able to properly control boost and EGTs?

Just so you know, the Kubota L2501 has mechanical direct injection. It is not an IDI engine.

Rant on:
Speaking broadly, every new convenience represents a skill lost. The older diesels just need fuel, compression and air to run. DEF, DPF, common rail, piezoelectric, even HEUI require the modules that control them. Those various "modules" or "black boxes" on modern machines (and pickups) are computers. Computers in an outdoor environment have a limited lifespan.

Let's talk diesel pickups. What has the modern tech given us? Power is up and visible smoke is down. But woe to you if you run low on DEF. As to power, it would be up anyway, as it is with gassers, because of progress driven by the free market competition for your hard earned dollars. And the Swedes did research finding that tiny modern diesel nanoparticulates penetrate further into our body, even into the blood and thru the blood/brain barrier. The smelly old diesels with visible black smoke didn't do that. You just avoid breathing it, an old art called Common Sense, and those large particulates settle to the ground.

What's the repair cost if your HPOP fails on a 6.7 Powerstroke (or Duramax, Cummins)? Last I heard it was about $8k, because the pump's shrapnel fills up the injectors and common rail. I decided to sell my 2018 6.7 and find another 7.3 diesel. My son read the 2018 with FORscan and found that the new truck had 18 computers. One for the steering wheel, one for the butt vibrating seats. Wretched excess. Every modern convenience is a skill lost.

Rant off.

Well, my 2003 Ford F-550 with the 6.0L diesel has the HEUI system and still has its original FICM, 20 years later. That truck has never been garaged and starts up and runs as smoothly as it did when knew. So that particular "computer" that has lived a hard life in the hot and cold has survived a long time and shows no signs of giving up.

In terms of particulate matter, its worth noting that the older diesels emitted fine particulate as well, in addition to the heavier, visible particulate. It depended upon how warm, fast, and well the engine was running. Its also worth noting scientists have discovered modern gasoline direct-injected engines produce even finer particulates than modern diesels, and are beginning to apply GPFs (gas particulate filters) on modern GDI engines as well.

Ford has had issues with every model of powerstroke except for the original IH 7.4L.

First off, its a 7.3L not a 7.4L. And those engines still had issues, just like every single engine ever made will. The 7.3L was just known to be overall pretty reliable and long lived, like a Cummins 5.9L.

Yes, the IH 6.0L had a ton of problems, almost universally related to the emissions system (EGR cooler, oil cooler, etc). Some had head gasket issues, but usually not on stock tuned motors. The 6.0L can be quite a decent and long-lived engine.

The IH 6.4L was basically a disaster - moving away from HEUI to a high pressure fuel pump. That wasn't so much the problem, but the dual EGR coolers and early version DPF were. That and the fact that engine internals were not as robust either.

The 6.7L has been overall a great engine. The CP4 pump is the weak spot, but then again there are millions of these things on the road and some have extremely high mileage with the original CP4 pump. I've owned 4 of these Ford 6.7's and they have been good.
 
   / Diesel smog emission stuff? #130  
When I first started thinking about buying my first tractor, my thoughts were to limit my search to all tractors with less than 25 or 26 (number varies, it seems) horsepower in order to avoid buying a new tractor with government dictated smog emission controls to have to deal with. Some people claim that they can be a real pain. Others are saying they are no big deal. So, what is the TRUTH?

Are some brands better than others in this department? I have been focused on probably buying a Kioti brand tractor, particularly the CK20SE CAB series, in which it appears all the models are pretty much identical except for the amount of horsepower the engine will put out. I guess it is a matter mostly of tuning and air/fuel control of that diesel engine making the difference. So I can choose to buy the 24.5 horsepower version, or perhaps the two other models with higher engine ratings (34.9 and 39.6 hp respectively), but having the onerous smog emission complexities attached.

Is this a big deal, or not? Headache, or not? Is it really something I should allow to influence my decision about what to buy?

Of course, another perspective of looking at this is: Will the difference of just 10.4 and 15.1 horsepower even worth fretting over and just buy the 24.5 horsepower version and be done with it?
I have a 20 ck3510. It’s no big deal with the regen. Just keep rpm’s up and work on.
 
 
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