Do we expect too much out of our trucks?

[mustangsallysdad]

Agreed--this TBN forum has a wealth of info on trucks and towing, but for a newby like me, it's a job to sort out the facts from the opinion when making buying decisions.

For example, I need to tow my parade tractors (one at a time), which weigh up to 4500 lb. The towing will amount to less than 4000 miles per year. After looking at 1T diesels and 20ft GN trailers, I'm pretty much going with a 3/4T gasser and an 18ft bumper pull car hauler. Lately I've been interested in the F250 with the 3-valve/cyl, 8 cyl 5.4L Triton gasser. I know many folks think the 5.4L is a puny engine for serious towing. So I tried to educate myself on that score.

I found the torque power curves for the stock 3V 5.4L

View attachment 159448

and for the much prized 1998.5 24V Cummins 5.9L turbo diesel (stock). Cummins, of course, is by far the preferred diesel engine for 3/4 and 1T PUs and the 24V enjoys an impressive reputation.

View attachment 159449

Diesels are touted for their low end torque (the grunt in towing), so I looked that these two engines at 2000 rpm. Interestingly, the hp and torque numbers are nearly the same

130 hp and 350 lb-ft for the Ford 5.4L
and
130 hp and 360 lb-ft for the Cummins 5.9L

Remember, that the Triton is a normally-aspirated, fuel injected engine while the Cummins uses a turbo to get its numbers.

Sure, the Cummins gets better fuel mileage and you can tune that engine to nearly double the hp and torque. And the resale value is better for the diesel, yadda, yadda, yadda.

But I'm only interested in doing a pretty simple towing job and can't justify the extra $5-6K for the Cummins and I'm not interested in performance enhancements. Stock engines will do my job fine.

Moral of this story: you need to do some legwork to get to the bottom of things.

I don't think you'd be dissapointed in the 5.4 for the use you describe...it should be more than enough to get the job done.

 

[mustangsallysdad]

Believe me, I LOVE the classics, cars and trucks. There is just no way the older stuff can compare to the new stuff. Technology has made them more complicated, but also much better. Frames are stiffer, engines make more power, engines are more drivable, transmissions have more gears, they haul and tow a heavier load etc.

On the other hand, the towing wars and weight carrying wars are getting way out of hand. Pretty soon a half ton will be rated to haul 20,000lbs in the bed, have a 12 speed transmission and a huge Cummings diesel engine. Oh wait, they already make those, there called semi's.

You mentioned classics and it reminded me of something else...my Grandpa had a HUGE old Ford station wagon (remember those?) with a 352 big block that he pulled one of those shiny Airstream travel trailers with...I remember it looking like it was pointed toward the sky from the tongue weight...but, he travelled all over with it.

 

[two_bit_score]

>>>You get the idea. What do you guys and gals think?<<<<

I think you make a great point.

But, if one is going to buy new then study and get other opinions and get all you can for what you have to spend.

 

[20 20]

Reading this thread and thinking of yesteryear {early 70's} for some reason this tune just popped into my head. How many remember? Who were the famous couple that sang it so out of key? Try to remember without using the net.

Boy, the way Glen Miller played. Songs that made the hit parade.
Guys like us, we had it made. Those were the days.
Didn't need no welfare state. Everybody pulled his weight.
Gee, our old LaSalle ran great. Those were the days.
And you know who you were then, girls were girls and men were men.
Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again.
People seemed to be content. Fifty dollars paid the rent.
Freaks were in a circus tent. Those were the days.
Take a little Sunday spin, go to watch the Dodgers win.
Have yourself a dandy day that cost you under a fin.
Hair was short and skirts were long. Kate Smith really sold a song.
I don't know just what went wrong. Those Were The Days

 

[mustangsallysdad]

Reading this thread and thinking of yesteryear {early 70's} for some reason this tune just popped into my head. How many remember? Who were the famous couple that sang it so out of key? Try to remember without using the net.

Boy, the way Glen Miller played. Songs that made the hit parade.
Guys like us, we had it made. Those were the days.
Didn't need no welfare state. Everybody pulled his weight.
Gee, our old LaSalle ran great. Those were the days.
And you know who you were then, girls were girls and men were men.
Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again.
People seemed to be content. Fifty dollars paid the rent.
Freaks were in a circus tent. Those were the days.
Take a little Sunday spin, go to watch the Dodgers win.
Have yourself a dandy day that cost you under a fin.
Hair was short and skirts were long. Kate Smith really sold a song.
I don't know just what went wrong. Those Were The Days

Archie & Edith Bunker!

 

[20 20]

Archie & Edith Bunker!

:thumbsup: you get a cookie

 

[mustangsallysdad]

:thumbsup: you get a cookie

It's not one of those computer cookie "thingies", is it? I like oatmeal raisin!!!

 

[Verticaltrx]

I think nowadays there is about a 50/50 split of people who expect too much out of a pickup and those who expect too little. What I mean by this is there is the whole 'my diesel pickup is a big rig' crowd who thinks its ok to pull 20K with a pickup, and also those who think they need a 1-ton truck to pull a small camper or boat trailer. It doesn't seem to me there are too many people left that buy a pickup, use it to its full-ability (but not over) and are happy with what they have.

I have an '88 F-250 4x4 with a fuel injected 460, ZF5pd, D50 front/10.25" rear, 3.55 LS and it tows great for what it was intended. Its got 230K on the ticker and still runs great, still gets 13mpg at 55mph on the highway.

Back in '88 it was a top of the line 3/4ton tow rig, and people were well pleased with trucks like this including big-block Chevys and Dodges. I regularly tow up to 10-12K with it, haul a pallet load of fertilizer or cement, load of firewood, 60-70 bales of hay, etc in the bed. IMO this is about as much as any pickup should tow or haul regardless of what they rate them at nowadays. If I need to haul more I use our '75 Chevy C-60.

 

[two_bit_score]

I think nowadays there is about a 50/50 split of people who expect too much out of a pickup and those who expect too little.
Back in '88 it was a top of the line 3/4ton tow rig, and people were well pleased with trucks like this including big-block Chevys and Dodges. I regularly tow up to 10-12K with it, haul a pallet load of fertilizer or cement, load of firewood, 60-70 bales of hay, etc in the bed. IMO this is about as much as any pickup should tow or haul regardless of what they rate them at nowadays. If I need to haul more I use our '75 Chevy C-60.

You're right but not everyone has that option as you do. Most people are trying to get a truck to do 'everything, no matter what they might need to to do'.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Vertricaltrx

That seems all well and fine and I agree the truck you had was the best money could buy back then but the simple fact is things are getting bigger and heavier. Drive the interstate any Saturday morning and around here every 10th vehicle is a diesel 3/4 or 1 ton pulling a 38' 5th wheel weighing in at 15,000# or someone on the way to the lake pulling a comparable load. With fuel prices going up people also want to make fewer trips. I can remember when I thought nothing of going to the quarry getting just 2 tons of gravel in the bed. Now days I will not get any less than 7 tons in the dump trailer.

Chris