Comparison DS4110HS or DK40SE or even a Massey 1643

[dennis52]

The DS4510HS will have those characters, big and bold on the side panels. I only paid an extra $500 for the Hydraulic Shuttle and it was money well spent.

With the HS you can change between forward to reverse without using the foot clutch. Flick the lever into neutral momentarily ,if you have load or speed on the tractor, tap the foot brake to take the load off, then into the opposite direction.

It does save a lot of gear changing as the great majority of my gear changing anyway is between forward and reverse.

I could live without it but it is convenient.

I work on some steep hills, slashing up and down and don't really have to use the foot clutch.

I wouldn't call it " basic" because it doesn't have HST or some optional extras.
For the work I do, I have had no regrets with the quality and performance.

 

[MrSteve]

Thanks again guys for the info, I am taking it all in...

About the DK 12x12. Can the 12x12 be shifted to/from forward/reverse without using the clutch? I understand it isn't a power shuttle, but it would be nice not to use the clutch to shift from forward to reverse even if you have to stop and take the RPMs down to idle 1st, just one less thing to do.

So far, in my mind, the DK is giving so much more over the 1600s, warranty, FEL power just blows the Massey away, Std bucket, front axle "looks" to be 2x beefier, and so on. But I do like the head lights better on the Massey . Sure they are some other things I like about the Massey over the Kioti, that's why a decision hasn't been made yet... Um I could take my chances and let the wife decide and just be surprised when the trailer shows up with the tractor, I will have to admit, at this point I would be fine with either tractor (DK over the 1600, not to sure yet on the DS, because of lack of "fun" stuff).

 

[IslandTractor]

, I will have to admit, at this point I would be fine with either tractor (DK over the 1600, not to sure yet on the DS, because of lack of "fun" stuff).

For the $4000+ savings of the DS over the DK, I could show you some real "fun stuff" you could buy in the implement department! Point is simply that it is useful to consider what you can get for a given budget not just what bells and whistles can be had with the fancier tractor.

Would you rather drive a Pinto with your choice of several really hot dates sitting next to you or a loaded Mustang with an empty passenger seat? Both vehicles will get you to the drive in!

 

[MrSteve]

For the $4000+ savings of the DS over the DK, I could show you some real "fun stuff" you could buy in the implement department! Point is simply that it is useful to consider what you can get for a given budget not just what bells and whistles can be had with the fancier tractor.

Would you rather drive a Pinto with your choice of several really hot dates sitting next to you or a loaded Mustang with an empty passenger seat? Both vehicles will get you to the drive in!

Points well taken, but... No matter what I would never own a pinto, close I got was a 77 nova (by the way I dated my wife in HS with that car).

With that said. I have to get to my dealer with quotes on paper to make sure he stays on track, I bet if I call again today I would get different prices on everything.

I shouldn't really be saying fun stuff, what I am looking at is things to make work easier and more comfortable, like, the 3 point area, extending arms, crank draft, rear remote, seat area, better seat, tilt wheel, fel stick and so on. To me there are some things there that are worth the extra money, BUT, yes not worth thousands, to me, maybe $1,500 or so.

 

[IndyIan]

For the $4000+ savings of the DS over the DK, I could show you some real "fun stuff" you could buy in the implement department! Point is simply that it is useful to consider what you can get for a given budget not just what bells and whistles can be had with the fancier tractor.

Would you rather drive a Pinto with your choice of several really hot dates sitting next to you or a loaded Mustang with an empty passenger seat? Both vehicles will get you to the drive in!

+1 If your not going to get the HST then the price difference(which seems excessive to me) between the two gear machines can buy a lot implements...
For me I spend what seems like half the time 3" away from a tractor tipping ditch or slope so the HST is great for that. If you're on a plain then go for the gears and buy a grapple or something fun with the difference in price.

 

[IslandTractor]

I shouldn't really be saying fun stuff, what I am looking at is things to make work easier and more comfortable, like, the 3 point area, extending arms, crank draft, rear remote, seat area, better seat, tilt wheel, fel stick and so on. To me there are some things there that are worth the extra money, BUT, yes not worth thousands, to me, maybe $1,500 or so.

I understand your point. Owning a DK40se I do appreciate some of the extras very much. The seat for example. Some of the other extras are really quite nice but hardly necessary. I owned a CK20 before the DK so know I am capable of turning the PTO on and off without a push button. I can use a lever to go into four wheel assist too. I also was able to mount three point implements without the quick extendable terminal link thingy. I'd pay extra for all those features but not sure I'd pay $4000 (actually I'm pretty sure I wouldn't pay nearly that much). A more comfortable seat can be purchased for about $500 if the stock seat on the DS is a problem. I'm pretty sure the terminal link thingies on the 3PT can be had aftermarket too. The push button four wheel assist is the one I'd have most trouble giving up as it allows switching on the fly which my CK did not. If the DS allows on the fly activation with a lever I'd forgo the button without a blink. PTO activation with a button is also nice but hardly critical.

If I had my choice of a DK40se (which I really do love) but would need to delay purchase of needed implements, or a DS4110 and immediate purchase of a grapple, forks, boxblade, rake and bush hog (all these implements could be purchased for about $4000), then the decision would be pretty easy for me.

Again, I love the DK40se so I am not ragging on it at all. I am just very much impressed with the value offered by the DS4110. I should also say that I've never operated a DS so it is possible that the ergonomics of the operator station would swing me away (the DK is really nicely set up) but I'd definitely want to take the DS on a test ride before deciding.

 

[dennis52]

I understand your point. Owning a DK40se I do appreciate some of the extras very much. The seat for example. Some of the other extras are really quite nice but hardly necessary. I owned a CK20 before the DK so know I am capable of turning the PTO on and off without a push button. I can use a lever to go into four wheel assist too. I also was able to mount three point implements without the quick extendable terminal link thingy. I'd pay extra for all those features but not sure I'd pay $4000 (actually I'm pretty sure I wouldn't pay nearly that much). A more comfortable seat can be purchased for about $500 if the stock seat on the DS is a problem. I'm pretty sure the terminal link thingies on the 3PT can be had aftermarket too. The push button four wheel assist is the one I'd have most trouble giving up as it allows switching on the fly which my CK did not. If the DS allows on the fly activation with a lever I'd forgo the button without a blink. PTO activation with a button is also nice but hardly critical.

If I had my choice of a DK40se (which I really do love) but would need to delay purchase of needed implements, or a DS4110 and immediate purchase of a grapple, forks, boxblade, rake and bush hog (all these implements could be purchased for about $4000), then the decision would be pretty easy for me.

Again, I love the DK40se so I am not ragging on it at all. I am just very much impressed with the value offered by the DS4110. I should also say that I've never operated a DS so it is possible that the ergonomics of the operator station would swing me away (the DK is really nicely set up) but I'd definitely want to take the DS on a test ride before deciding.

Good post Island Tractor. A well presented and balanced summary of the issues that many of us , I am sure, consider when buying.

Just a few points:The DS 4WD lever can't be used on the fly; at least that is what the manual says.
After 180 hours I haven't had mine out of 4WD yet and probably never will.
The DS also comes with a knob to switch the pto off and on.
I have found the operator station quite spacious.

The seat is heaven after what I have been hanging off for 15 years .

Also, the DS does not have the glow plug sensor and switch off/indicator that I believe is on the DK.

Neither does it have telescopic lift arms or the tilt steering column.

It does, however, have a great decent size inbuilt tool box & storage area behind the seat. Remotes & trailer plug were standard.

Different levels of appointment for different markets . Whatever the model, it seems Kioti make a pretty good tractor to suit most needs.

 

[BTI]

Just thought I'd answer a couple of these using Dennis52's good
post
My additions have the ***

BTI

Just a few points:The DS 4WD lever can't be used on the fly; at least that is what the manual says.***slightly rolling actually helps lock it in as long as all tires are going the same speed (not spinning/slipping)***
After 180 hours I haven't had mine out of 4WD yet and probably never will.
The DS also comes with a knob to switch the pto off and on.***Same PTO system as on the DK-SE but only has on/off no "automatic"***

I have found the operator station quite spacious.

The seat is heaven after what I have been hanging off for 15 years .***Me too and I actually like the seat better than the DK-SE just because it allows you to sit down "in" the tractor.***

Also, the DS does not have the glow plug sensor and switch off/indicator that I believe is on the DK.*** the sensor/timer set up can be added as an option for around $70***

 

[IslandTractor]

Just thought I'd answer a couple of these using Dennis52's good
post
My additions have the ***

BTI

Well, I for one could care less about the automatic feature on the DKse PTO control. I only use on or off.

The seat sounds fine on the DS as do the ergonomics.

A glow plug timer is kinda nice but I can count all the way to ten myself instead of staring at an idiot light.

I imagine the telescopic 3pt links can be added aftermarket if desired (they are nice but I imagine they don't cost more than $150 a pair.

Sounds more and more to me that the DK40se is no longer the reigning value champion in the Kioti lineup. I cannot think of any strong reason to get the gear DK over the DS4110. $17,500 for the DS is a steal. People pay that much for twenty something horsepower JD and Kubotas that are literally half the tractor at best.

 

[MrSteve]

Thanks again for all the advice.

Ok just for the heck of it I did some numbers on what the DK gives you over the DS, some prices are an educated guess, taken from this thread and some others are just who knows guess (not sure how to put a cost on a few things). Again for the heck of it, I am not set in what model as of yet, you all are giving me some very good points to make the right choice.

Ok with all said, what I see that is on the DK and not the DS.

Trans, 12x12, 4 more gears, lets say $500

Rear remote... $500

Glow plug timer $75

3pt
crank leveling adjustment. $300
Telescopic lower links kit. $200
Telescopic stabilizers kit. $100
Rear lift control (rod used to control 3pt lift from behind the tractor), say $50

Driver position.
Seat. $500 (taken from a post here)
Tilt wheel. guess $200
Driver position FEL stick. Who knows, but it was a $400 option on my 1533 6 years ago, so I will go with that price.
Electronic 4x4, guess $300 (I would bet much higher)
Electronic pto, guess $300 (I would bet much higher)

I'm sure there is some things I have missed, but just wanted to see what is there on a DK over the DS on added options. So we are looking at round about $3,400 from the list I made above. I am not trying to justify going to the DK over the DS, I just did some numbers to see where this extra $4,000 (per the my dealer) could come from on the DK cost over the DS.

I am going to drop by the dealer tomorrow to get his "quoted" price on the DK, I already know the price for sure on the DS (posted already), this way we know for sure on the price, I am also going to get a quoted price on the Massey 1635 and 1643 in 12x12s and skid steer bucket (as close as I can get for a good comparison to the DK/DS), but I would have to assume the DS should be less then the 1643 and maybe a close run to the 1635 (but being the 1635 is less in HP, that's not a good comparison over a 41hp DK/DS and I wouldn't pay the same price on the 1535 for 6 hp less).