FEL how long 'should' bucked remain up when parked?

[k0ua]

I have a question about how the hydraulics work on the back of my tractor.
The tractor came with one set of hydraulics and I paid to have a second set installed.
My haybine has a single hose from the ram, when hooked to the stock set of hydraulics it moves up and down with the movement of the lever inside the cab just fine. (slow or fast depending on how far I move the lever)
If I hook up to the added hydraulic block the cutter moves up slow or fast with the lever control. However, if I try to lower the cutter it just falls to the ground with no control.
So even though the hydraulic blocks look the same on the outside, are the internals different?

To directly answer you question, they must be different. But this much you already knew. Lets go over some basics. Your haybine has a single hose therefore your haybines cylinder is a single acting cylinder. The cap side of the cylinder is connected to your remote and the rod side of the cylinder is open to atmosphere through a vent. When you apply fluid your haybine's cylinder goes up slow or fast depending on how much you "crack" the valve by operating the control lever to allow fluid to go into the cap side of the cylinder and push against the piston.

Now, when you throw the lever the other direction you replumb your rear remote connections so that the connection (either A or B) that you had connecting to the pumps fluid flow is now connected to tank. The earths gravity causes the haybines cylinder to retract and pushes out fluid in the cap side of the cylinder, and pushes this fluid back down thru the hose and on in to the tank.

But apparently on the 2nd set of valves there is no "feathering" that allows you to gently adjust the valve's orifice to allow the fluid to be returned to tank at a slower flow rate and hence allow the haybines machinery to drop slowly. It appears to be all or nothing on that side of the valve. And it appears to open fully and allow the fluid to escape in a rush and the haybine to drop rapidly. I am thinking the second valve is in "float" maybe? Perhaps someone else can shed some light on this. I also wonder if you hooked your single hose to the other side (of either A or B) if you could still feather the raising of the haybine? Or would it just jump up in a rush and when you pushed the valve past neutral could you then feather it down slowly? Have you ever experimented with this?

 

[the old grind]

I have a question about how the hydraulics work on the back of my tractor.
The tractor came with one set of hydraulics and I paid to have a second set installed. .... though the hydraulic blocks look the same on the outside, are the internals different?

Simple answer, 'might be'. A block may look like any other but 'float' (w/detent), 'regen', or flow control or check valve features aren't obvious, if even visible at a glance.
----
Uh, James. I guess you got a head start on me, there. :laughing:

 

[k0ua]

Simple answer, 'might be'. A block may look like any other but 'float' (w/detent), 'regen', or flow control or check valve features aren't obvious, if even visible at a glance.

Agreed, he isn't going to tell anything by looking at the valve block, unless it is a part number he can look up.

 

[the old grind]

1. 'Metered' (-return) check valve installed inline.

2. Low-tech adjustable orifice, plumbed in parallel with a check-valve.

Either as an add-on vs to R & R the block for a SA cyl.

 

[ch1ch2]

Hose diameter on one implement vs the other maters. Also the force or leverage of one implement could be different.
Try hooking up implement "A" to valve 1 and then switch to valve 2. Does it act different or the same?
Now, hook up implement "B" to valve 1 and then switch to valve 2. Does it act different or the same?
I have 3 rear remotes. 1, Simple self centering. 2, Simple self centering with float. 3, Detent with auto release and float.

 

[Creamer]

I have a question about how the hydraulics work on the back of my tractor.
The tractor came with one set of hydraulics and I paid to have a second set installed.
My haybine has a single hose from the ram, when hooked to the stock set of hydraulics it moves up and down with the movement of the lever inside the cab just fine. (slow or fast depending on how far I move the lever)
If I hook up to the added hydraulic block the cutter moves up slow or fast with the lever control. However, if I try to lower the cutter it just falls to the ground with no control.
So even though the hydraulic blocks look the same on the outside, are the internals different?

Definitely! One the second the lever just dumps the pressure back to the sump whereas the first is a controlled relief. not sure of the interior details but the second is basically an on/off valve.

 

[cat fever]

Thanks guys for all the replies,
To answer the one question most of you had; I did try moving the hydro line to the other port of the added on block. No difference, and all I have to do is just barely touch the lever and the haybine drops. Even if I put the lever back to neutral position the haybine does not stop going down.
I question all this because my warranty is up this month. Not sure it's worth the effort to take it in. The stock hydro block works perfect and I haven't needed the second block yet, I only tried it to make sure it worked.

I mentioned this in the haying thread but here's how I found out how it worked.

I needed to do some work on the haybine so I pulled it up on some blocks. Raised the cutter bar all the way up and was doing my work. It was not were I needed it so I was going to have my wife in the tractor and me under the haybine telling her when to lower the cutter bar and how much. LUCKILY I wanted to see how fast it moved so I could show her, so I lowered it first. Well it fell to the ground like a ton of bricks. If I would have been under it, I would have been crushed instantly. After that I just always used the stock hydro block. I'm not a cat but I did use up one of my 9 lives that day.

 

[k0ua]

Thanks guys for all the replies,
To answer the one question most of you had; I did try moving the hydro line to the other port of the added on block. No difference, and all I have to do is just barely touch the lever and the haybine drops. Even if I put the lever back to neutral position the haybine does not stop going down.
I question all this because my warranty is up this month. Not sure it's worth the effort to take it in. The stock hydro block works perfect and I haven't needed the second block yet, I only tried it to make sure it worked.

I mentioned this in the haying thread but here's how I found out how it worked.

I needed to do some work on the haybine so I pulled it up on some blocks. Raised the cutter bar all the way up and was doing my work. It was not were I needed it so I was going to have my wife in the tractor and me under the haybine telling her when to lower the cutter bar and how much. LUCKILY I wanted to see how fast it moved so I could show her, so I lowered it first. Well it fell to the ground like a ton of bricks. If I would have been under it, I would have been crushed instantly. After that I just always used the stock hydro block. I'm not a cat but I did use up one of my 9 lives that day.

Well Cat, I guess you learned a valuable lesson that day that we can all put to good use: We don't trust our lives to hydraulics.

Here is a similar but interesting observation. On my previous tractor a Kubota L3400, when the FEL control valve was thrown into the float position with the lift arms of the FEL raised, the lift arms would fall towards the earth fairly rapidly, but not rapidly enough so that the bucket would hit the dirt with a bang. A "hissing" sound would be noted as the arms fell as the sound of fluid going thru an orifice.

On my present Kioti tractor if the FEL control valve is thrown into the float position and the FEL lift arms are raised the arms fall rapidly about like a rock being dropped at the same height. Or pretty close to the same speed as the rock!. No hissing sound is noted in the fall, and the next sound you will hear is the loud bang of the bucket hitting the ground!. So apparently there is a difference between the metering of the fluid flow back to the tank on the Kubota vs. the obviously much larger orifice of the Kioti control valve that dumps the fluid back to the tank "in a hurry". In any case you sure don't want to be standing under the upraised bucket of the Kioti and have someone shove the FEL control valve past the detent and all the way into float position.

Is the fact that the Kioti float position drops like a rock a problem? No, not once you get used to the way it works. You just power down the arms to a few inches from the ground before you shove it into float so it hits the dirt gently. But the first couple of times with the arms up high can sure be a surprise!.

 

[cat fever]

James I hear ya,
I make it a habit to not spend any time under a raised bucket for the reason you stated. If for some reason I have to be under the bucket, I always have one eye on the bucket.

 

[RNeumann]

Probably should have started a new thread for this. Maybe someone will move it.....
Anyway their are several types of valves. Beyond knowing that I'm not the guy to ask. Based on what you describe the second valve is the wrong type for your needs. Here is some info-

Hydraulic Valves: Directional Control Valve, Pressure Control Valve, Flow Control Valve