Filling fuel cans on vehicle

[Bedlam]

Take a look at this video. Its hard to tell if she grabbed a smoke in the car and that caused the fire, or the static she produced with that sweater.
looks like she was lucky, and maybe made a new low temp cutting torch too.
YouTube - ....Atention woman driver !!!!

 

[MossRoad]

Take a look at this video. Its hard to tell if she grabbed a smoke in the car and that caused the fire, or the static she produced with that sweater.
looks like she was lucky, and maybe made a new low temp cutting torch too.
YouTube - ....Atention woman driver !!!!

I have a conversion van with cloth seats. Each and every time I get out of it, as soon as my feet hit the ground, I get a huge wallop of static if my hand is on the metal door handle. If I do not touch any metal, and just get out, I can walk up to the metal posts that hold up the canopy over the pumps and get blasted. The action of sliding across the cloth seats charges me up. Guess is the same thing happened to her with that sweater.

What amazed me about that video is that it looked like she tried to blow it out, then shut off the nozzle and removed it from her car, then tried to beat it out on the ground. YIKES! RUNNNN!!!

 

[MossRoad]

Yep. Go back and watch the video. She goes back to the car, slides in and out on the seat, gets out of the car without touching anything and grabs the handle. POP!.

I believe there is a warning on all the gas pumps around here that tell you to touch your hand to metal before filling the tank and it also says to not get back into and out of the vehicle again without touching metal. How many folks do you think are ever taught that before they get their license?

 

[jimmer2880]

In my younger years, several of us had chain-smoked to our campfire location, carying a coffee can full of gas to light the fire. Unfortunately, none of us had a match, lighter, etc (You would have thought at least ONE of us smokers would have a light). We tried, unsuccessfully for a very long time trying to light that gasoline with already lit cig's. And yes, we even put a couple of them out in the gas.

I'm not saying it's impossible. However, I am saying that is very hard to use an already lit cigarette to ignite gas.

I believe its the spark, or open flame that makes it go boom.

 

[Rara Avis]

In my younger years, several of us had chain-smoked to our campfire location, carying a coffee can full of gas to light the fire. Unfortunately, none of us had a match, lighter, etc (You would have thought at least ONE of us smokers would have a light). We tried, unsuccessfully for a very long time trying to light that gasoline with already lit cig's. And yes, we even put a couple of them out in the gas.

I'm not saying it's impossible. However, I am saying that is very hard to use an already lit cigarette to ignite gas.

I believe its the spark, or open flame that makes it go boom.

In Fire Fighting terms...it isn't the material that burns...ITS THE VAPORS...

 

[patrick_g]

I have a degree in electronics and know

Your comment about plastic fuel containers being spark safe or not a source of static sparks is NOT TRUE.

Dissimilar insulators can produce tremendously high voltages and resultant sparks capable of igniting gasoline vapors. Maybe your curriculum didn't cover static electricity generation much. Maybe it is too "old fashioned."

It has been well demonstrated that gasoline (a fair insulator) when flowing over plastic (gas can) generates a static charge. By law the metal gas nozzle is grounded BUT the gasoline being a fairly good insulator, insulates the gas can from the nozzle and so a sizable charge can build up on the can. It is possible for this charge to make a spark by jumping to the metal nozzle. The risk is reduced if the nozzle is kept in contact with the fuel can.

I make no claim that this is Consumers Guide check rated lethal first time every time but it can happen.

Even a dry desert wind just blowing over the car can charge the car with static electricity. The first contact of the nozzle to the car should not be the tip of the nozzle to the car's filler hole where a spark can cause ignition. If you are touching the grounded nozzle and with your other hand touch the car away from the open gas hole the charge will be dissipated. Alternatively you can touch the nozzle to the gas flap or other metal on the car before you remove the gas cap. Then insert the nozzle and keep metal to metal contact throughout the fueling.

When fueling a gasoline fueled aircraft the first thing the driver does when he gets out of the truck is to pull out the ground wire from the reel on the truck and get the ground in place. The nozzle is ALWAYS to be kept in contact with the aircraft during fueling to prevent a spark.

Sorry, if I was a bit shrill, B U T... Plastic gas cans in the truck bed, lined or not with a plastic liner or spray on or sitting on the ground can generate static sparks and need to be handled with caution. Just because they don't blow up or ignite first time every time doesn't mean they can't or won't.

There is no simple means of "grounding" a plastic can. An advantage of sitting the cans on the ground is that if there were a problem you could drive the vehicle away from it.

I use plastic cans. I fill them in the bed. I try to be careful with the nozzle to reduce risk. Maybe one day the makers of the cans will use additives in the plastic to promote conductivity so they won't build up a charge. Meanwhile...

Pat

 

[Egon]

Paul, didn't you fellows have a rag to dampen with gasoline and then pull a plug wire??? I hope you realize how lucky you all were!

The Hydrocarbon Industry gets all choked up about static electricity, plastic containers and grounding cables.

I think??? boat fuel tanks need some proper grounding before the fellow on the dock will fill them?? or is it before they can be certified??

 

[chapmx]

Background: I have two tanks (both metal) that I sit in the back of pickup (100 gal each) one for diesel and one for gas. The pickup has a spray in liner (line-x). I would like to be able to safely fill each at a fuel station while they are still in truck.

Question: If I run a grounding wire from the transfer tank to the frame of the truck and then follow other standard precautions such as making sure nozzle is in contact with tank filler neck during filling etc. does this alleviate the risk of filling while in bed of the truck? I have hard time seeing how this is any different than the standard fuel tank in the actual vehicle as it is grounded via the vehicle only. Is it better to run ground to the actual fuel pump of the service station than to the frame of truck? Obviously, the vehicle's built-in tank is not grounded directly to fuel station's pump (except via nozzle contact which I would have with transfer tank also) so does not seem that this should be required.

Question 2: Assuming grounding wire alleviates or at least minimizes the potential static issue does the person doing the filling have to be standing on the ground while filling the transfer tank? E.g. Filler hard to reach from ground. If person doing the filling stands in bed (in contact with nozzle and transfer tank - which, remember, is grounded to truck frame) is there increased risk of static?

Anyone have any advice on whether these procedures would mitigate the the static risk?

 

[patrick_g]

Background: I have two tanks (both metal) that I sit in the back of pickup (100 gal each) one for diesel and one for gas. The pickup has a spray in liner (line-x). I would like to be able to safely fill each at a fuel station while they are still in truck.

Question: If I run a grounding wire from the transfer tank to the frame of the truck and then follow other standard precautions such as making sure nozzle is in contact with tank filler neck during filling etc. does this alleviate the risk of filling while in bed of the truck? I have hard time seeing how this is any different than the standard fuel tank in the actual vehicle as it is grounded via the vehicle only. Is it better to run ground to the actual fuel pump of the service station than to the frame of truck? Obviously, the vehicle's built-in tank is not grounded directly to fuel station's pump (except via nozzle contact which I would have with transfer tank also) so does not seem that this should be required.

Question 2: Assuming grounding wire alleviates or at least minimizes the potential static issue does the person doing the filling have to be standing on the ground while filling the transfer tank? E.g. Filler hard to reach from ground. If person doing the filling stands in bed (in contact with nozzle and transfer tank - which, remember, is grounded to truck frame) is there increased risk of static?

Anyone have any advice on whether these procedures would mitigate the the static risk?

First of all... "GROUNDING" to the frame of the vehicle is NOT GROUNDING anything. You are "bonding" the tanks and the vehicle together and, through your described procedure, preventing static discharge from tank to truck. The truck however is not grounded.

You are somewhat reducing the risk with the procedure you describe. One way of increasing your safety even more would be to carry a ground wire you can use to connect your truck to the pump before starting to flow the fuel.

A spark you can't see or feel might touch off gas vapors. By grounding the truck to the pump (tank and truck bonded) before taking the nozzle to the tank you eliminate the possibility of a spark between the nozzle and the tank at first contact as well as preventing static build up during fueling.

Aircraft fueling procedures typically include a reel of ground wire to connect to a good earth ground before fueling begins.

For those who may not be aware of it, in some conditions, just a breeze blowing across your vehicle may generate a static charge. Fuel flowing in the hose as you fill can produce a static charge.

Pat

 

[chapmx]

I have a 12' ground wire on the tanks with a clip. Would running the wire from transfer tank to the pump make more sense than running it to frame of truck or is both required? Seems to me that if Transfer tank has same ground as pump it really would not need connection to truck.

Am I mistaken though in that the built-in fuel tank only has a "bond" to vehicle and that if transfer tank is bonded to frame it has approx. same risk of creating a static spark when bringing nozzle to filler as the built-in tank?

Thanks for the input. As you can tell "electricity" is not one of my strenths!

Tim