Flaring tubing

[crazyal]

I had a chance to get a Mastercool hydraulic flaring tool for a lot less than the price of a new one ($100). Since I needed and didn't have the tool to make the bubble type ends on brake lines I bought it. It comes with the dies to make brake lines and some gas lines.

While looking around the internet I see they also make a set of dies for it that will do 37 degree flares. I was wondering if anyone used one of these for hydraulic lines and if it's worth buying the dies to do them.

In the past I have tried to make a 45 degree double flare with the simpler kind of flaring tool on 3/8 brake line with little luck. The tool was the kind where you clamp it and then use a screw thing to flare it. It was nearly impossible to get the kind of force needed to do the flare. I'm guessing that hydraulic tubing is harder to flare than brake line. I would hate to spend $100 for a set of dies that can't do hydraulic lines.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

I have the same set and have made dozens of SAE flares, installed them on JIC and never had a problem with leaks. The industry recognizes the two flares as being interchangeable.

 

[crazyal]

I found the dies last night for $51 plus shipping so I bought them hoping they would work. Now I just need to add a couple of remotes and plumb the lines.

 

[DRL]

I have the same set and have made dozens of SAE flares, installed them on JIC and never had a problem with leaks. The industry recognizes the two flares as being interchangeable.

Are you saying that 37 deg flares are interchangeable with 45 deg flares.

DRL

 

[J_J]

I do not believe the two are interchangeable.

There are different sets of dies for 45 degrees and 37 degrees.

Jic Fitting

I believe these are the standards.

Quote:

Ultimately four flared joint standards will be covered by Flaretite's product range:

- JIC 37 degree; (Joint Industial Conference) SAE J514.

- JIS 30 degree; Japanese Industrial Standard.

- SAE 45 degree; Automotive SAE J512.

- SAE 45 degree; Refrigeration SEA J513.

Another quote:

IC fittings, or SAE J514, or MIL-F-18866, are a type of flare fitting having 37-degree flare seating surfaces and are widely used in hydraulic applications. The SAE J514 standard replaces the MS16142 mil-spec standard; some tooling is still listed under the old mil-spec name. JIC fittings are similar in size and threading to AN fittings.

45-degree flare SAE fittings are similar in thread, but not angle and are not interchangeable

 

[Discount Hydraulic Hose]

I have the same set and have made dozens of SAE flares, installed them on JIC and never had a problem with leaks. The industry recognizes the two flares as being interchangeable.

While not completely interchangeable, there are some commonalities that allow you to interchange SOME flare fittings.

In the sizes -02, -03, -05, -08 and -10 only, the threads of SAE 37° flare (JIC) and SAE 45° flare are the same. However, the sealing surface angles are not.

Some female swivel fittings in these sizes are actually dual seat, with two sealing surfaces (one at 37° and one at 45°), allowing the female to mate with either a 37° male OR a 45° male.

If you're mating a male flare fitting with flared tubing, it is always preferable to have the angles match. However, if your tubing is not hardened steel (such as stainless) it may conform to the new angle just enough to seal in some applications where the pressure is not excessive.

I apologize for the vagueness of that last paragraph, but I don't have any hard data to indicate where the line should be drawn here. People who have worked with specific materials in specific applications probably know how much they can bend the rules on those specific situations. Just be aware that not ALL flares are interchangeable in all sizes or all applications, so you may run into problems if you assume this works in ALL applications. It more than likely does not.

 

[crazyal]

I'm not an expert but I assumed that AN and JIC flares could be interchanged. SAE is both 37 and 45 degrees. Here's a link to a Rigid 37 SAE flare tool.

37ｰ SAE Flaring Tool for 3/16 - 3/4" Pipe (377)

 

[J_J]

I'm not an expert but I assumed that AN and JIC flares could be interchanged. SAE is both 37 and 45 degrees. Here's a link to a Rigid 37 SAE flare tool.

37ｰ SAE Flaring Tool for 3/16 - 3/4" Pipe (377)

They have two different angles for the flare and seat. You might do it with force, but it is not a good idea.

They make a flare tool kit for 45 degrees also.

http://www.toolbarn.com/ridgid-83037.html?refpage=ridgid-41162&type=related_view

They are not interchangeable.

 

[crazyal]

Going back to my original post, Mastercool makes several sets of dies for their hydraulic flaring tool. The universal kit I got contains only 45° dies. They do sell a set of 37° dies for their tool (which I ordered). I'm a little worried that the 37° set they sell is for doing thinner pipe typically used in AN applications for fuel lines.

I've been told that for 3/8" hydraulic tubing for a tractor should be .065" wall, maybe .049 would would work but it's cutting it close depending on what my Kubota's pressure is set at. I've done some flares on 1/4" brake line with a simple screw type flare tool and found that the force needed was extreme. To do them I had to mount the clamp part in a vice and put an extension on the flaring part to apply enough force. I expect the hydraulic flare tool will be able to achieve greater force, but will it be enough to handle the thicker wall tubing?

 

[KML]

I've been told that for 3/8" hydraulic tubing for a tractor should be .065" wall, maybe .049 would would work but it's cutting it close depending on what my Kubota's pressure is set at. I've done some flares on 1/4" brake line with a simple screw type flare tool and found that the force needed was extreme. To do them I had to mount the clamp part in a vice and put an extension on the flaring part to apply enough force. I expect the hydraulic flare tool will be able to achieve greater force, but will it be enough to handle the thicker wall tubing?

I choose to stay with the .065". It is a little harder to work with but when you start putting bends in tubing the outside of the turn gets "drawn" and the wall thickness reduces. I've never cut one in half to see how much, but it does weaken it. The added safety is worth it in my mind.
As far as making the flare on the thicker stuff, lubrication seems to help alot. I use anti-sieze compound. Just a light coating on the anvil of the flare tool and on the threads of the screw. (I have the cheap screw type, I've never used a nice hydraulic one like in your picture!) It stays where you put it and seems to do a good job. I'm sure there is something better and more appropriate out there but this has worked for me so I've never really looked.