Flowing Ground Water what to do.

[D'oh]

So I did some Ditching last Summer at the Cabin, we have always had some Water Issues, including a Soup Hole that never dried up, even during Drought Times.

I sank a Cistern and ran a line to the beach, then dug a trench down the Hill behind the Cabin, scammed some Gravel Fill, and thought Run Off would flow down this trench.

Went up this winter and found water flowing out of the ground, part way down the hill. made the Yard a Glacier.

The water starts in the 3rd picture, where this summer the ground was very soft and Clay Soup. It still floods the ground by the Cabin but much less intense than before. This flow is about 100' away from where it use to run out. It is not Run Off down the Hill, it Starts at the Dark Patch.

So, I can sink a Cribbing, and Tap the Flow, divert it towards the Lake, but now that it is to the Surface, what to do when it get below Freezing Temps? Frost gets as deep as 4' here, I can't get the Tile that deep, all the way to the Lake. I can trench it into the Bush, but worried it will still backflow into the yard.

I am not sure what the answer is, but maybe someone here has run across something like it. The Neighbor 250 yards away once had a Flowing Spring on His lot, but it was Cased 20' from shore, this is 100' back from the Lake.

 

[ultrarunner]

Sounds like it wants to be a lake or pond.

Dewatering is a science…

A small development his several springs when grading.

The solutions was a system of underground piping with manhole covers intercepting and diverting water… all underground except the manhole lids.

 

[bdhsfz6]

I have a similar situation here. Yours's looks more complicated though, so I doubt this will be of any help.

The slope above my private road is loaded with springs. Some years, they create a glacier that covers the road in spots. It's intermittent, and seems to depend on how the frost leaves the ground.

I wanted to dig a series of drainage ditches down to the stream below, but the DEP stopped me since it's considered wetland. Around here, you can't put a shovel in the ground without them being on your back.
Instead, I built a berm and dug a deeper drainage ditch parallel to the road. It works most of the time but the ice still covers the road in one spot if it gets thick enough.

 

[D'oh]

Definitely Frost Related when coming out, it is just wet and spongy during Summer Months.

Makes one wonder, if the "Flow" is always there, Frost just pushes it up at the easiest point.

"But the Level" or I guess Pressure is at least enough to overcome the Ice Jamming by a foot or more, where the Hole is dug.

 

[MTGreen]

I understand it's a problem, but in a way it's also pretty neat

 

[rScotty]

I had the same problem after a local flood moved our creek over and changed the water table.
Tried all sort of cheap fixes. Nothing worked.

The solution was to dig a 3 foot deep ditch the whole length (over one hundred feet), lined that new ditch with geotextile from Home Depot, then also from HD bought enough 4" heavy wall PVC pipes in ten foot lengths to run two side by side pipes the length of the dirtch down to a pond. The pipes were covered with a foot of 1/2" to 1" gravel and then we folded the geotextile on top of the gravel. Last step was to do a backfill and plant grass.
Now the ground is good dry lawn, and the water runs into the pond year round.

A few years later we were getting roots choking the pipes at one point, so we ended up digging up the upper end and adding a couple of access ports and U bends above ground. Now we can simply roto-rooter the entire length as needed.

I couldn't get all the way to where I wanted the outlet, but close enough so it makes no difference. Interestingly, before when all we had was wet sloppy ground, it would freeze into an ice patch in the winter. But now with the undergound pipes it flows year round. Even when the snow is deep and the outside temperature is below zero, that outflow is still enough above freezing to keep ice from forming.
rScotty

 

[D'oh]

Yes, I would love to Geotex it, maybe 150', but the Frost goes down over 3' here, so it would just Back Up again, even if it is at the Drain site out in the open.

I think an Open Ditch, 90 degrees from the trench already there, right where the Tree is Lying in the forth picture.

More work for the Chinese Mini Geisha

 

[rScotty]

Yes, I would love to Geotex it, maybe 150', but the Frost goes down over 3' here, so it would just Back Up again, even if it is at the Drain site out in the open.

I think an Open Ditch, 90 degrees from the trench already there, right where the Tree is Lying in the forth picture.

More work for the Chinese Mini Geisha

I was surprised that the underground flow doesn't freeze in winter even though the pipes are above frost level.

But then when I thought about it, in order for the old pre-piped flow to make an ice patch below the house, there had to be liquid water coming there from some place where the water was above freezing. So maybe confining the flow in the pipes allowed it to stay warmer than the surrounding soil. I think that is it. Just keeping the water flowing and deep enough to be away from the cold air is enough to prevent it from icing. I also think that the geotex and gravel don't transfer heat as well as saturated soil does. So the pipes are to some extent insulated from the frozen soil.

A similar thing happens in the creek that flows past our place. Our frost line is about 4 to 5 feet depth. The creek is not that deep; it is at most 3 feet deep. But it flows during the winter just fine beneath a solid surface sheet of ice. My guess is that the ice on top insulates the flowing creek from the cold air.

 

[Egon]

Water changes density over a certain temperature range.

In the OP’s situation drainage has to be below ground. Open trenches will freeze.

 

[D'oh]

Yes below Frost Level to not freeze, however this will need an an Above Ground Exit so that will freeze anyway. Blocking any flow