DarkBlack
Veteran Member
Most boat dock pumps have real gas also
FUEL PROBLEMS with Ethonal
- Thread starter billefscombust
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Diamondpilot
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Not necessarily. I am in the marine business and we have not been able to get real gas since 2010.
Red Sta-Bil Is a waste of money in my opinion. The marine grade stuff is great. 1 oz to 10 gallons, so a qt last forever for most.
Chris
Copperhead
Veteran Member
Well, you can disagree about the "we are not using food for fuel" statement I made, but I just recommend, that when you are on a vacation or road trip, that you take the time to go see a major biofuels refinery and let them tell you what they are making out of the corn that comes in there and how much gets back into the food supply. It will probably be a real eye opener.
I haul a lot of feed product from the Blair, NE biofuels refinery. There is not any wasted product that goes into that facility. Hundreds of truck loads, container loads, and rail car loads of both livestock feed supplement and food product comes out of that facility daily. Whenever I am in that area, I usually will go in a pick up a load of Biolys, which is a high protein feed supplement. It is an essential product in livestock feed, especially poultry production and egg production. It would not be a stretch to say that over 100 tons of that product, every day, is produced there. And that is just one of dozens of different products made at that facility that revolves around the ethanol production.
You can have your preconceived notions about how this all works all you want. People believe all sorts of things. But the educated person will look into things for themselves and not rely on internet comments or only read things that play into their own preconceived notions about how the world turns. All I suggest is that you go visit and tour a major ethanol plant and see for yourself. Just count the number of trucks and rail cars taking food product from ethanol production out of those plants for distribution here and world wide.
And liberal? Man, I am probably one of the few that want it all.... wind, nuclear, NG, propane, solar, gasoline, diesel, biodiesel, ethanol, hydrogen, etc, etc, etc. I want every type of fuel and power source available so that energy is cheap and abundant. That is a very capitalist idea. Not every fuel or power source is perfect for all situations.
As for ethanol being so bad and a lousy fuel economic wise, then you would be hard pressed to explain how the new engines in development are getting as much power from E85 as the same engines get from diesel, and do so more economically. GM has been testing a 3.2L EBDI engine that gets the same HP and Torque from 3.2L on E85 as the 6.6L Duramax Diesel. And better mpg. And that engine, which is being tested in GM 3500HD pickups, reduces net weight from the vehicle by over 400 lbs. No DPF like diesel, no SCR like diesel, just simple cat converters. Cummins just released a news article about how they have been testing a 2.8L inline 4 using E85. Not sure about how some folks see it, but 250HP and 450 lb torque from that 2.8L running E85 is pretty impressive. Better torque than a lot of V8's, and gets there lower in the RPM band. Again, lighter and cheaper than a comparable diesel engine and yet easily equivalent or more in power and economy.
Now in all fairness, E85 might not be as cost effective in some areas of the country. But in areas like the midwest where it can regularly be 70 cents to a dollar cheaper in price than regular gas, having an engine that can give you the power and economy of a diesel and do so on a fuel that is well below the price of gas or diesel is a plus in my book. Just hope they get these new engines as an option soon. And that would free up gas and diesel for other areas of the country, where E85 is not as cost effective. Everyone wins. And truth be told, the more E85 gets used, the less demand there is to have gasoline blended with ethanol in the form of E10 or E15. The Renewable Fuels Act standard just specifies the percentage of ethanol and biodiesel in total, not the percentage per gallon. The states and municipalities play into how it is blended and whether regular gas is available or not.
I haul a lot of feed product from the Blair, NE biofuels refinery. There is not any wasted product that goes into that facility. Hundreds of truck loads, container loads, and rail car loads of both livestock feed supplement and food product comes out of that facility daily. Whenever I am in that area, I usually will go in a pick up a load of Biolys, which is a high protein feed supplement. It is an essential product in livestock feed, especially poultry production and egg production. It would not be a stretch to say that over 100 tons of that product, every day, is produced there. And that is just one of dozens of different products made at that facility that revolves around the ethanol production.
You can have your preconceived notions about how this all works all you want. People believe all sorts of things. But the educated person will look into things for themselves and not rely on internet comments or only read things that play into their own preconceived notions about how the world turns. All I suggest is that you go visit and tour a major ethanol plant and see for yourself. Just count the number of trucks and rail cars taking food product from ethanol production out of those plants for distribution here and world wide.
And liberal? Man, I am probably one of the few that want it all.... wind, nuclear, NG, propane, solar, gasoline, diesel, biodiesel, ethanol, hydrogen, etc, etc, etc. I want every type of fuel and power source available so that energy is cheap and abundant. That is a very capitalist idea. Not every fuel or power source is perfect for all situations.
As for ethanol being so bad and a lousy fuel economic wise, then you would be hard pressed to explain how the new engines in development are getting as much power from E85 as the same engines get from diesel, and do so more economically. GM has been testing a 3.2L EBDI engine that gets the same HP and Torque from 3.2L on E85 as the 6.6L Duramax Diesel. And better mpg. And that engine, which is being tested in GM 3500HD pickups, reduces net weight from the vehicle by over 400 lbs. No DPF like diesel, no SCR like diesel, just simple cat converters. Cummins just released a news article about how they have been testing a 2.8L inline 4 using E85. Not sure about how some folks see it, but 250HP and 450 lb torque from that 2.8L running E85 is pretty impressive. Better torque than a lot of V8's, and gets there lower in the RPM band. Again, lighter and cheaper than a comparable diesel engine and yet easily equivalent or more in power and economy.
Now in all fairness, E85 might not be as cost effective in some areas of the country. But in areas like the midwest where it can regularly be 70 cents to a dollar cheaper in price than regular gas, having an engine that can give you the power and economy of a diesel and do so on a fuel that is well below the price of gas or diesel is a plus in my book. Just hope they get these new engines as an option soon. And that would free up gas and diesel for other areas of the country, where E85 is not as cost effective. Everyone wins. And truth be told, the more E85 gets used, the less demand there is to have gasoline blended with ethanol in the form of E10 or E15. The Renewable Fuels Act standard just specifies the percentage of ethanol and biodiesel in total, not the percentage per gallon. The states and municipalities play into how it is blended and whether regular gas is available or not.
bumperm
Veteran Member
No matter how it is blended or what spin you try to put on it, ethanol is a heavily lobbied for by big agribusiness, gigantic rip-off of the tax payer (those few of us left) and consumer. It's one of those lose-lose things. Can't stand on its own, costs more to make than it's worth, is crap in engines, and is being forced on us by liberal loonies and greedy self-serving profiteers. I think that about sums it up.
bumper
hawkeye08
Elite Member
When they stop the subsidies, it will die out...
KiotiKowboy
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Sounds like our great new socialistic health care system. Good luck on seeing it end. Big government uses every possible scam to secure more power, for example, healthcare - IRS - EPA - gun control - seizing lands - and on and on.
Patches
Veteran Member
You'll notice those are all air fields or marinas, the closest to me being Sanford, which is about a 40 mile round trip. Even with all the evils of ethanol, I can't justify driving 40 miles to get non-ethanol fuel
not exactly...3 blocks away from me on that list (in arkansas) there's a non ethanol sunoco station ranging from 87 through 116 octane. luck of the draw i guess.
Patches
Veteran Member
You are indeed fortunate. I was referring to my location in southern Maine. I used to be able to get 93 octane fuel laced with ethanol for my snowmobile, but they have discontinued that in my local area. Highest octane fuel available is 91 and it's all 10% ethanol regardless of brand
KiotiKowboy
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I've read that ethanol will separate, float to the top, after a short time. One could theoretically skim it off? I have no idea if this is true.