Garage / Barn Door height for Tractor / backhoe

[QRTRHRS]

I am danger close to building my workshop / garage / barn.

Going to be 60 X 40 with 12 1/2' eave height.

Going to start with a slider on each side, centered. (the 60' length)

Thinking of going with a 10' door, so I would have room ot put a wing overhang on it later if desired while staying under the other roof.

Looks like my hoe will sneak under a 10' door if I lay down the hoe part, could stand it back up after I was through the door.

Anyone have some insight or reccomendations as too which way too go before I commit?

When you say 12 1/2' eave height, do you mean as measured from the ground level to the top of the sidewall header that you would be setting your rafters or trusses on?

If so, my understanding is when discussing sidewall height that this would be in an even increment, say 12' , 14' , etc. Otherwise, you are talking about a non standard measurement which equates to higher costs. I don't have much experiance with steel but always remember that with wood post buildings, you loose dimensions due to center to center measurements for standard construction. You had not mentioned what type of building you plan on erecting.

Are you going to put in endwall doors as well? 60x40 is a nice size and large slider doors on the endwalls are the most cost efficient way to go while giving you plenty of access area. They won't be the best if you plan on heating the building though.

Besides height limitations, sidewalls also have width limitations due to your bay sizing if you go with post construction. Otherwise, you will be looking at some heavier type of header.

You need to consider the roof pitch on that possible future lean to roof. Depending on how deep you want to go, that roof may end up to be pretty shallow. At least snow load is not an issue for you.

The barn that I have now has ten foot wide (9'6") by eight foot high doors on both sides of the endwall and a twelve foot wide by twelve foot high slider in the center. I wish the main door was as wide as the sixteen footer that my last barn had. That one was twelve foot high and I oftened wish that it was fourteen.

When it comes to barn doors, bigger is usually better.

 

[john_bud]

My hoe is like yours and needs to be let down to get in and out. I've hit the boom on the top of the door 4 times now. I would raise the stinking side walls, it's a major PITA to lower it and wiggle it in and out.

jb

 

[jimmyj]

Agree with the fellas. Higher sidewalls and gable end door if you can. I DID NOT do it that way and my door is 12' wide but only 8' high (because I extended the eaves down and out later on) - I have simply forgot what I was doing a few times and have hit the top of the darn door and the sides with equipment or loads on trailers. If I can, I will one day lift the whole darn barn up a couple more feet and move the door to the gable end. A huge hassle and my mistake was not planning for bigger equipment in the future when I built. I figured at that time I could not afford it but now, 10 years later, I'm regret not going at least 12' x 12'.

 

[mwb]

When you say 12 1/2' eave height, do you mean as measured from the ground level to the top of the sidewall header that you would be setting your rafters or trusses on?...


When it comes to barn doors, bigger is usually better.

I would guess that the 12' walls would be sitting on a curb about 6" high - assuming the floor works out right! If this is the case, why not pour the foundation wall a little higher (18"), you still keep the 12' framed wall but add to the concrete. Probably wouldn't cost much extra, just the cost of the concrete.

 

[AlanB]

Sorry I took so long to respond, and I definetely appreciate everyones insights.

http://www.discountmetalroofing.com/user_files/jun09.jpg

I am not quite sure why they spec 12'6" but these guys have it pretty well figured down to a gnats butt to get the most for the $. So far they have been the least expensive I have seen and I know where there are 3 of them in town and they come highly reccomended.

I think what I am going to do for now is go with the 10' tall X 12' (ish) wide sliders on the two sides for drive through / breeze and frame a 12' opening in the West gable end that if I want the taller door later I can.

In the gotta have end of things, I want flow through doors to get the breeze / ventilation.

I want to also build a shop in a shop to heat / cool and do the nicer type work.

The problem I end up with putting the doors in the gable are that I loose more floor space I will need to keep clear, 12' X 60' long ways equals 720 square ft. whereas on the 40' X 12' would be 480 sq ft.

If I put my "shop in the shop" in, and have gable end doors, and center the door, then my shop gets short, if I slide the doors over, then my door gets shorter.

It is all just a series of trade off's I know, and I am probably overthinking it a bit, but untill money gets spent, and plans and materials get bought, it is largely academic and free thinking. Lots easier to adjust now then a year from now.

Thanks for continuing input folks.

 

[EddieWalker]

Hey Alan,

My previous barn had a 10ft tall and 12 wide roll up door on it. I never parked my backhoe in there, but pulled in in a few times to work on it. Lowering the hoe is a pain, but since it wasn't very often, I didn't really think too much of it. My neighbor now owns that barn, and he keeps his backhoe in there all the time. He doesn't mind the door height either and said that when he builds a bigger shop, he'll go with the same sized door openings.

My current shop door is ten foot tall and ten foot wide. I made it smaller this time for the added wall space. The 12 wide opening on the other shop was nice, but not really needed.

I've been to quite a few barns and shops with sliding doors, and was even planning on putting one in at first. But complaints of keeping the wind and bugs out was pretty common. You also have to be away or where you put your walk in door so it's not behind your sliders.

Have you priced out a roll up door? I really like them and wouldn't consider anything else. It's a two person job to put them in, but mostly that's because you need somebody to tell you how high to lift the door while you are operating the loader. Otherwise, they are very quick and simple to install.

If price is the issue, wait until you save enough to pay for one. I believe mine was in the $500 range. Figure out what you will pay for a slider and the difference wont be but significant. The difference between the two IS significant.

What type of barn/shop will this be? Pole barn with wood posts?

I really like having 12 foot walls. I wouldn't go any less, but don't really know if I have any use for more. As it it, I have to keep a ladder on my shelves to get to my top two rows of shelves.

I didn't insulate my shop, and regret that decision. My walls are Hardi on the outside with OSB on the inside. That works out great. I would highly recommend putting OSB or a similar type of wood on the inside walls. I can hang just about anything, anywhere I want. My ceiling is just metal on purlins. I get some condensation from it, but not that big a deal. It's super hot in there in the summer and terribly cold in the winter. When it rains, it's so loud that you can't hear yourself think.

My current plan is to install 2 inch foam to my purlins with 3 inch deck screws and large fender washers. Then I'll see how it works out and go from there.

Have you looked at Mueller's and there all metal kits? That's where I bought my door and metal for my roof. They are easy to work with, and are always working on improving their products. My first door was not made by them, but one they bought from another manufacturer and then sold by them. Now they manufacture their own doors. I've never heard anything negative about them, and recommend them to everyone that I know.

Are you going to build it yourself or hire it out? Setting the poles is the hardest part of doing it yourself. Getting it square and true is time consuming, but if you can do that, the rest is easy.

Eddie

 

[AlanB]

Hey Alan,

My previous barn had a 10ft tall and 12 wide roll up door on it. I never parked my backhoe in there, but pulled in in a few times to work on it. Lowering the hoe is a pain, but since it wasn't very often, I didn't really think too much of it. My neighbor now owns that barn, and he keeps his backhoe in there all the time. He doesn't mind the door height either and said that when he builds a bigger shop, he'll go with the same sized door openings.

My current shop door is ten foot tall and ten foot wide. I made it smaller this time for the added wall space. The 12 wide opening on the other shop was nice, but not really needed.

I've been to quite a few barns and shops with sliding doors, and was even planning on putting one in at first. But complaints of keeping the wind and bugs out was pretty common. You also have to be away or where you put your walk in door so it's not behind your sliders.

Have you priced out a roll up door? I really like them and wouldn't consider anything else. It's a two person job to put them in, but mostly that's because you need somebody to tell you how high to lift the door while you are operating the loader. Otherwise, they are very quick and simple to install.

If price is the issue, wait until you save enough to pay for one. I believe mine was in the $500 range. Figure out what you will pay for a slider and the difference wont be but significant. The difference between the two IS significant.

What type of barn/shop will this be? Pole barn with wood posts?

I really like having 12 foot walls. I wouldn't go any less, but don't really know if I have any use for more. As it it, I have to keep a ladder on my shelves to get to my top two rows of shelves.

I didn't insulate my shop, and regret that decision. My walls are Hardi on the outside with OSB on the inside. That works out great. I would highly recommend putting OSB or a similar type of wood on the inside walls. I can hang just about anything, anywhere I want. My ceiling is just metal on purlins. I get some condensation from it, but not that big a deal. It's super hot in there in the summer and terribly cold in the winter. When it rains, it's so loud that you can't hear yourself think.

My current plan is to install 2 inch foam to my purlins with 3 inch deck screws and large fender washers. Then I'll see how it works out and go from there.

Have you looked at Mueller's and there all metal kits? That's where I bought my door and metal for my roof. They are easy to work with, and are always working on improving their products. My first door was not made by them, but one they bought from another manufacturer and then sold by them. Now they manufacture their own doors. I've never heard anything negative about them, and recommend them to everyone that I know.

Are you going to build it yourself or hire it out? Setting the poles is the hardest part of doing it yourself. Getting it square and true is time consuming, but if you can do that, the rest is easy.

Eddie

These are the folks I am looking at currently

Project Gallery - Metal roofing, metal roof, discount metal roofing, metal roofing, metal roof

I need to talk back with Mueller, but so far I like these the best for the Money.

I did not have my specifics in mind when I last spoke with Mueller, but I am pretty honed in at the moment.

I need to check other availabilies of Overhead doors, but they are quite expensive through these folks. The 12' door comes about because of bay spacing.

I want this hybrid type pole barn with the higher roof. It has some advantages that I like.

I finally figured out I think why the eave ends up at 12'6" and that is because you have the poles at 12' and then there is a 2X6 Purling above that. I need to call and verify, but I was looking at my buddies yesterday, and that made sense too me.

I need to shop more for overhead doors.

Everyone that has told me has said to insulate first, so I will.

I think I will slowly add in steel too the inside as walls especially where I do a lot of welding, wood inside always scares me. Probably some will be drywall.

I will build it myself, I just cannot stand to pay others. That said, I have several good freinds that have experience building these type buildings and they have all agreed to come give me a hand getting the poles set. I think (and everyone has said) that, that step is the key to making it go smooth. So I will allot double the time and manpower to that portion of the task and get them in right.

My neighbor has also said he will work with me so the day in day out work will be us two, but the getting the poles set will be a team effort.

My buddy offered me his crane truck and help when needed. I am going to utilize him to set the trusses. I was thinking backhoe, boompole etc. but put the crane truck in the middle with him on the controls (smooth experienced operator) and I think we can set the 6 trusses in short order.

Will see how it comes together, I expect in two months, If I keep my job etc. that I will be working on this. Then again, maybe if I loose my job I will be doing it sooner.

 

[mojoinco]

My 2 cents: 30x40x12 pole barn. Came with the place. Has 2 centered gable end sliders, 12' x ~ 11' wide (double door) each. 1 side door on a side wall. Side door is a problem with snow sliding off of the roof. I don't have bug problems, but I would suggest using the foam rubber closure strips under the metal to keep weather and mice down (we have issues with snow sneaking in, and sometimes rain in really windy storms). Brings up sealing the edges of the door openings for the same reasons.

I wouldn't have less than a 12' door. I don't need more than that, but I have a slide in camper that is 11' when on the truck. Taller side walls means a useful mezzanine height (put one along one wall, out of the main path, for all that junk you will want to keep, but don't need often). I wished my doors were off to one side. I don't worry much about keeping the center open, though I do keep it so I can for when I feel the need (which is only occasionally).

And I wished it were insulated for the cold (we don't hot so much -- and swamp coolers work here).

I would also frame out where your utility penetration points are in the floor (leave openings in the concrete, back fill with gravel). That will allow you to add/change/service anything that you have. And one last thing: cut your concrete seams versus molding them in. It was like heaven when I first had them. Wished I had done the apron I work on the same way. Creepers, carts, boxes, all roll so much nicer across cuts.

Whatever you build, we'll all look forward to the build thread!

 

[Gary Fowler]

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A cheap way to gain wall height if you have fixed length wall materials is to pour a ledge around the perimeter leaving out the doorways. I got an additional 8" height on my shop by putting a single course of CMU blocks on the perimeter edge. I put Two courses of blocks on my addition lean too to gain a bit more height and water resistance since it was against a hill. Anyway, the builder first dug and poured the wall footers and embeded rods to hold the blocks. Next a brick mason set all the blocks on the footers on which the 2x8 floor plate and 2x4 wall studs would sit and allowed to cure. The slab was poured inside the CMU block wall and the hollows in the blocks filled with concrete. J-bolts were installed in the CMU blocks when filling with concrete on which the wall plate would be bolted down. He used 9 foot 2x4 for the walls and when setting on the single course gave me 8" from the block x 1.5 for the 2x8 floor plate so I ended up with 9.5' interior wall height which allowed me to have 8' garage doors installed. This is high enough for my B26 TLB to enter with hoe in raised position but alas not nearly high enough for my LS to get in. This costs me a bit more than $1 per linear foot to install. It also pretty much water proofs the walls from any runoff AND gets the exterior siding up off the ground so it doesnt water stain from rain splashing it. A side benefit is that I can powerwash my shop and not get the interior siding watered too much. I used 3/8" plywood for the interior ceiling and walls which is good for putting hangers about anywhere I want for light duty stuff.