Garage design

[franklin2]

I am moving eventually. Looks like I am going to have to build a new garage/shop. The ceiling needs to be high because I have a auto lift. The garage I have now has only 10ft ceilings, but I make do with a scooter and don't raise the lift all the way up. A 12ft ceiling would give me full capability in height. I am thinking of making a cathedral type ceiling and putting the lift in the middle so the building doesn't end up so tall. I also have garage doors, I think I am going to a barn/slide door on rails, the garage door rails are always in the way.

Have any of you looked at a building made from the company in this link? https://www.facebook.com/BuildABarnLLC/ If you don't have facebook, here is their website; Build A Barn LLC The big deal I see is look how few posts you have to put in the ground, and there are no large 2x's going along the top of the posts. I got a local company to design the garage I have now, and they "created" a kit and they dumped it in the yard off the truck and I built it myself. It's 30 ft widex24ft deep, and on the front I have 3 10 ft openings(really ended up being about 9ft finished) and to span this distance he gave me 2x12's, enough to double them up on each side of the 6x6's to go across the door openings. He designed more posts on the back wall, so it has double 2x10's.

On the top of these doubled up 2x front and rear I installed trusses on 2ft centers, then plywood, and then shingles.

My questions are; What are the different designs for the roof support systems and the types of roofs? In the build a barn example, he is spanning a whole 10ft between the metal trusses. But he is using 2x6's on edge to support the metal roof. He has no beams across the posts, each post has it's own truss.

If I use a conventional wooden truss, what is the max amount I can separate them? I would probably be using 2x4's laid flat. Or could I buy some metal brackets and set the 2x4's or 2x6's on edge? Could I actually build a building like the build a barn, but use wooden trusses instead of the metal ones? Go to lowes and buy the metal brackets to hold the 2x6's on edge, and copy that design? Would I have to tell the truss people what I am doing and they would build a heavier truss or would a "normal" truss work? I would probably see if I could buy a cathedral type truss to give me more ceiling height.

Any truss spacing less than 10ft means I would have to install the 2x12 beams along the top of the posts, and then space the trusses along the top of the beams. Or install more posts in the ground for each truss. I would have to factor that into the cost comparison, comparing that to the cost and less labor to do the build-a barn building. Do any other companies use this type of method? He is close by, I could go pick it up the components myself.

Another question; I am assuming my designer put the trusses I have on my garage now on 2ft center because my garage had a more conventional plywood and shingle roof. Is that correct?

As always my priority is cost and ease of building/erecting the garage. If the cost is drastically cheaper to just add more posts, then I would consider that. One change I am going to make, my doors are below the gutters right now. I want to put one large door on the end of the "A" of the building, and utilize the cathedral part of the ceiling for the lift, so extra posts on the "sides" is not going to cramp my style for a large door.

 

[ovrszd]

Just my opinion here.

I like my trusses fastened to a post. Only exception for me is when door location dictates something different.

I helped my BIL vault some trusses so he could put a lift in an 8ft eave garage. It's doable. A lot of work. But doable.

If you are buying your trusses you could draw them up and have some built where you need the vault. You also need to be very clear with the truss people about your roof type, ceiling or not, and if so, how are you gonna line the ceiling and insulate it. They need that information to calculate the load that is going to be on the Trusses.

Have you considered an all metal building?? I get by with a 10ft eave building and a 4 post hoist because my building is metal and the ceiling is vaulted by design. Sorry I couldn't find a hoist pic but this gives you the idea.

 

[Terry1040]

I like an all metal building. In today's prices, with steel being cheaper, it might not cost more than a wood framed. Good luck

 

[Creamer]

If the OP is concerned about cost and is OK with a pole building then a metal building is not for him. While the kits will be about the same amount of money the foundation needs to be much different and more costly for a metal building whereas the pole building just puts a pole in the ground and you are done with it. the floor can float.

There are many pole buildings with 8 or 10 ft rafter spacing. And yes you can purchase the metal clips to hold a 2X4 or 2X65 on edge to support the roof. If you have an 8' or 10' spacing for your rafters you can still just run a 2X6 between the tops of the poles as the rafters will mount directly onto the poles and the weight of the roof and snow and wind loads etc will be transferred directly to the posts. No need to run a 2 X 12.

Trusses are designed for the loading so it would not be the same truss for a 2' spacing as a 10' spacing. The Build a Barn truss system is a common one but understand that fro small buildings the savings in material to go to a metal truss system does not offset the increase in labor to build the truss therefore for small buildings the steel trusses are more expensive than a solid metal beam. As the building gets larger the material savings gets larger and finally this reverses. (Of course steel prices are much cheaper now than they were a few years ago.) Also understand that you can get raised wooden trusses - they do not have to go horizontally from pole to pole.

Currently I am in the process of building a full metal building but went through all the cost analyses. I ended up with a full metal building because of the quality of floor I wanted due to wanting to put in a CNC mill and possibly other machine tools. Once I went with a full footer and 6" floor the metal building was about the same cost as a pole building but I also will have almost as much in the concrete as I will in the building.

Personally i really like the appearance of the Build A Barn.

 

[crazyal]

Do you have a size in mind? I built my garage, it's 28 x 32 made from wood, a few years ago. I went with premade trusses spaced 2' apart. I have a Bend-Pak lift in one corner and a steel i-beam running down the center to support the center of the second floor so I don't have any posts in the middle of the first floor. I probably have $18k into it. I'm sure if you downsized it you could save quite a bit of money. The 32' I-beam was over $1k alone. I think the 28' wide x 12' high trusses were $2200 for 16 of them.

 

[franklin2]

In the build a barn example, I was thinking about the 24x40 size. That would give me 10 more ft of shop space. The "garage" I have now ended up being more of a shop than a garage. So I am going with one large door for drive in access and a smaller door on the shop end for material and shop access, even though it will all be one large room.

The more I think about it, could a person possibly use the 10ft post spacing, and make my own "trusses". Keeping the 24ft span, off the top of my head could I use 2x8's sandwiched together and then drop down from the peak and put two more 2x8's across to make the truss look like a "A". Use plywood to tie the truss pieces together. Notch it to sit on top of the posts. And then nail joist hangers on each side of the truss and slip the 2x6's down in the hangers. The problem would be getting "buy in" from the building inspector. Maybe I could tell him it's a "certified design" from the people on the build it yourself forum on tractor by net.

P.S. Almost forgot, I believe I also will have to add some criss-cross bracing from truss to truss, probably to keep the whole thing from "racking" correct? I see the build a barn has it under there somewhere.

 

[JimRB]

Why not just do 2x8 16" on center to a ridge board? Maybe even 2x6 is ok, you would have to look up span charts and factor in your snow and wind loads. 2x12 bolted between posts for the 2x8 to sit on. No engineering required, it is standard framing. Building your own trusses is not allowed in some building juristictions.

You know that a real lumber yard can give you a quote on materials to build a building?

 

[Paul Thornton]

Garage door tracks can follow the pitch of the roof so you don't have to close the doors when using the lift.

 

[EddieWalker]

How wide is your barn going to be? I really like these metal type of trusses because you can get a nicer roof pitch out of them along with wider width then you can with wood and have the open ceiling. I'm looking into building an event center using trusses like this that will have a 40 foot span. My plan is to set the posts every 8 feet and use 24ft long 2x6's on edge for the purlins. I feel that the extra cost for posts and purlins is minimal compared to the additional strength I will get with this layout.

Armour Metals Measuring & Installing - Metal Roofing and Pole Barns This is a website that has pricing for the trusses. It's farther away then I want to deal with, so I just use it for reference. I still might go all metal for my posts and trusses with Muellers, but have to spend some time talking to them before I decide.

I'm not a fan of slider garage doors because they let water and wind get past them. There are ways to seal them up, but from what I've heard, they don't work very well. Adding a porch roof over the door will help a lot with water, but wind is always going to be an issue. I like roll up doors. I still get a little wind through the edges of mine, but it's never been too bad.

As for spanning trusses, first you have to decide what type of roof do you want? Shingles mean you have to have your trusses 2 feet apart or closer. Higher end homes tend to go 16 or 18 inches on center. Especially if they have a heavier type of roof then shingles. The main reason for this is you attach the shingles to the decking, and either plywood or OSB can only handle a 2 foot span. Shingles also do best at 4:12 pitch or better. Depending on your weather conditions, anything less will result in failure. Metal can be as low as 2:12. If you go lower, you run into issues. Most metal buildings are going to have a roof pitch of 2:12 up to 4:12. You can get steeper, but there is a big jump in cost if you do so.

With a metal R panel type roof, you attach the metal to the purlins. These can be spread out as far a the wood is rated for. Usually a 2x4 on the flat is good for 4 foot spacing, 2x6 on edge is good for 8 foot and 2x8's are good for 12 foot. I've seen 16 foot spans with 2x12s, but mostly they are done with metal purlins. I'm never going to span more then 8 feet in anything I build, so I'm not familiar with all that's involved with the wider spans. I think your builder going ten feet for his spans is at the max limit of what will work, which I don't like to do. I like to be well under the limits because things tend to fail when maxed out.

If you want to spend more money and go with a hidden seam metal roof, then you have to deck the roof the same as a shingle roof.

Most cost effective is going to be R panel metal roof with an 8 foot span between trusses in my opinion. I prefer to have the trusses resting on the posts.

 

[ovrszd]

If the OP is concerned about cost and is OK with a pole building then a metal building is not for him. While the kits will be about the same amount of money the foundation needs to be much different and more costly for a metal building whereas the pole building just puts a pole in the ground and you are done with it. the floor can float.

There are many pole buildings with 8 or 10 ft rafter spacing. And yes you can purchase the metal clips to hold a 2X4 or 2X65 on edge to support the roof. If you have an 8' or 10' spacing for your rafters you can still just run a 2X6 between the tops of the poles as the rafters will mount directly onto the poles and the weight of the roof and snow and wind loads etc will be transferred directly to the posts. No need to run a 2 X 12.

Trusses are designed for the loading so it would not be the same truss for a 2' spacing as a 10' spacing. The Build a Barn truss system is a common one but understand that fro small buildings the savings in material to go to a metal truss system does not offset the increase in labor to build the truss therefore for small buildings the steel trusses are more expensive than a solid metal beam. As the building gets larger the material savings gets larger and finally this reverses. (Of course steel prices are much cheaper now than they were a few years ago.) Also understand that you can get raised wooden trusses - they do not have to go horizontally from pole to pole.

Currently I am in the process of building a full metal building but went through all the cost analyses. I ended up with a full metal building because of the quality of floor I wanted due to wanting to put in a CNC mill and possibly other machine tools. Once I went with a full footer and 6" floor the metal building was about the same cost as a pole building but I also will have almost as much in the concrete as I will in the building.

Personally i really like the appearance of the Build A Barn.

I drilled nine 36" x 36" deep holes with Rerod sticking up out of them where my steel uprights would sit. Then poured a 6" concrete deck on top of them to set the building on. In what turned out to be a $40,000 building complete, $8000 of it was concrete.

In the case of the OP sounds like he's gonna put doors on the eave side of the building?? If so he's gonna miss his poles with some rafters. If so, he'll hafta do a heavy beam between those poles where rafters are gonna set.

If buying wood trusses I'd certainly draw up a building plan and decide how much vault and how many rafters have to be vaulted and let the rafter company build them that way.

One last comment. First time shop/garage builders rarely understand the full cost of a useable building. When you check with material suppliers and they give you a quote for the materials you have barely scratched half the cost of a finished building. In my case the building package cost $21,000. I ended up with $40,000 in the completed building. A bare, non insulated, non lighted, non heated dirt floor building is simply a pop can and only useable to store stuff in and work in on perfect weather days. If you want to fully utilize it you have just got started.