Global Warming?

[Redneck in training]

I agree, cloud cover usually = warmth.

I brought in the coal plants for comparison, regardless how each system creates and disturbs the environment it's not possible to extract or convert energy without heat. Entropy balances the event.

Carnot Cycles anyone?

Rob

There is a 2GW nuclear power plant near the town where I used to live. The river will not freeze over about 60 miles downstream of the plant. There is perpetual fog in the valley in the winter time.

Cities are also few deg warmer than surrounding area.

Wind turbines do not add energy to the surrounding environment (in fact they remove energy) but might alter the ground temperature by mixing layers of air.

The latest large wind turbines placed offshore can produce power at about the same cost as conventional power plants. The problem is variability of the supply so energy storage is the issue. Geographical distribution and interconnection of the wind power sources might even the supply.

 

[Egon]

You gotta try a Specialized Cycle!:thumbsup:

 

[crash325]

This is good for all the younger adults of today and current teenagers to read.

Just to let folks know that we senior citizens are not the ones who have
contaminated and are currently contaminating the planet.

We did not have, but did not need "The Green Thing".

In the line at the store, the cashier told an older woman that she should bring her own grocery bags because plastic bags weren't good for the environment.

The woman apologized to him and explained, "We didn't have the green thing back in my day."

The clerk responded, "That's our problem today. Your generation did not care enough to save our environment."

He was right -- our generation didn't have the green thing in its day.

Back then, we returned milk bottles, soda bottles and beer bottles to the store. The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and sterilized and refilled, so it could use the same bottles over and over. So they really were recycled.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day. We walked up stairs, because we didn't have an escalator in every store and office building. We walked to the grocery store and didn't climb into a 300-horsepower machine every time we had to go two blocks.

But she was right. We didn't have the green thing in our day.

Back then, we washed the baby's diapers because we didn't have the throw-away kind. We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy gobbling machine burning up 220 volts -- wind and solar power really did dry the clothes. Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always brand-new clothing. But that old lady is right; we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

Back then, we had one TV, or radio, in the house -- not a TV in every room. And the TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief (remember them?), not a screen the size of the state of Montana.

In the kitchen, we blended and stirred by hand because we didn't have electric machines to do everything for us.

When we packaged a fragile item to send in the mail, we used a wadded up old newspaper to cushion it, not Styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap.

Back then, we didn't fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to cut the lawn. We used a push mower that ran on human power. We exercised by working so we didn't need to go to a health club to run on treadmills that operate on electricity.

But she's right; we didn't have the green thing back then.

We drank from a fountain when we were thirsty instead of using a cup or a plastic bottle every time we had a drink of water.

We refilled writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, and we replaced the razor blades in a razor instead of throwing away the whole razor just because the blade got dull.

But we didn't have the green thing back then.

Back then, people took the streetcar or a bus and kids rode their bikes to school or walked instead of turning their moms into a 24-hour taxi service.

We had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to power a dozen appliances. And we didn't need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed from satellites 2,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest pizza joint.

But isn't it sad the current generation laments how wasteful we old folks were just because we didn't have the green thing back then?

 

[patrick_g]

Global warming: New research blames economic growth

Looks like the USA is doing its part to fight global warming via the recession.



Use of Public and Private Dollars for Scaling Up Clean Energy Needs a Reality Check, Say Scholars

http://www.sciencedaily.com/release...ciencedaily/top_news+(ScienceDaily:+Top+News)

 

[Rob-D]

This is good for all the younger adults of today and current teenagers to read.

Just to let folks know that we senior citizens are not the ones who have
contaminated and are currently contaminating the planet.

We did not have, but did not need "The Green Thing".

In the line at the store, the cashier told an older woman that she should bring her own grocery bags because plastic bags weren't good for the environment.

The woman apologized to him and explained, "We didn't have the green thing back in my day."

The clerk responded, "That's our problem today. Your generation did not care enough to save our environment."

He was right -- our generation didn't have the green thing in its day.

Back then, we returned milk bottles, soda bottles and beer bottles to the store. The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and sterilized and refilled, so it could use the same bottles over and over. So they really were recycled.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day. We walked up stairs, because we didn't have an escalator in every store and office building. We walked to the grocery store and didn't climb into a 300-horsepower machine every time we had to go two blocks.

But she was right. We didn't have the green thing in our day.

Back then, we washed the baby's diapers because we didn't have the throw-away kind. We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy gobbling machine burning up 220 volts -- wind and solar power really did dry the clothes. Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always brand-new clothing. But that old lady is right; we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

Back then, we had one TV, or radio, in the house -- not a TV in every room. And the TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief (remember them?), not a screen the size of the state of Montana.

In the kitchen, we blended and stirred by hand because we didn't have electric machines to do everything for us.

When we packaged a fragile item to send in the mail, we used a wadded up old newspaper to cushion it, not Styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap.

Back then, we didn't fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to cut the lawn. We used a push mower that ran on human power. We exercised by working so we didn't need to go to a health club to run on treadmills that operate on electricity.

But she's right; we didn't have the green thing back then.

We drank from a fountain when we were thirsty instead of using a cup or a plastic bottle every time we had a drink of water.

We refilled writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, and we replaced the razor blades in a razor instead of throwing away the whole razor just because the blade got dull.

But we didn't have the green thing back then.

Back then, people took the streetcar or a bus and kids rode their bikes to school or walked instead of turning their moms into a 24-hour taxi service.

We had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to power a dozen appliances. And we didn't need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed from satellites 2,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest pizza joint.

But isn't it sad the current generation laments how wasteful we old folks were just because we didn't have the green thing back then?

What you are talking about has nothing to do with "green". It's called technological progress.
Technological progress does not care about 'green' or not "green". Marketing promotes and sells products, people buy products. Did your generation say no, "that's not environmentally friendly!" Nope!

And since we're talking about energy ,that one room TV used vacuum tubes. Vacuum tubes use hundreds to thousands of times more electricity than LSI (large scale integration) so three or four TV's today use less energy than they did.

Here's the question: What are you using today? An LCD TV or the old one room tube TV in your parent's house with a CRT? Incandescent lights that use several times more energy or CFL's and LED's that don't? A car with pollution controls or an old car that had nothing more on it than an EGR valve running on leaded gas?

I think your generation made a mess of the planet, they had great ideas in the 60's, but turned into a generation that put the buck first. All the hippies became corporate CEO's. The planet's a mess and I blame your generation for loosing its way.

So again, what are you using today, your car from 1965? Your TV from the same period? When you get a package in the mail does it have peanuts in it? Got air conditioning? A freezer? Or do you truck out to the outhouse and root cellar? Still push a lawn mower or is yours electric? How about that tractor you own? Give up the sickle bar did you? If we have technology we use technology. If we have power we use power, oil has spoiled us.... all of us!

And by the way if you think I'm being hard on your generation you should know it's my generation too, I'm in my late 60's.

Rob

 

[Rob-D]

Global warming: New research blames economic growth

Looks like the USA is doing its part to fight global warming via the recession.



Use of Public and Private Dollars for Scaling Up Clean Energy Needs a Reality Check, Say Scholars

Use of public and private dollars for scaling up clean energy needs a reality check, say scholars

Of course, if people drive less than less pollution is created, make fewer products use less energy, make less pollution.


From your second link:

"It can be fixed through a new approach that forces these technologies to become more economically efficient, he writes in the article, "Tough Love for Renewable Energy."


"It is time to push harder for renewable power, but to push in a smarter way," Ball writes.

I agree.

Pulling the plug on renewables because we think they will affect the economy is a ploy and 'red herring'. It's promulgated by the false belief that monetary ends equate to happiness. If you believe that you have never had real money and you haven't had real happiness, and probably don't know how to attain either.

So we get this corporate media hype about the 'greenies' wanting to run industry into the ground to crash the US. We get Massey Energy telling people that they are making jobs and feeding people when the last thing they care about is anyone, ask Don Blankenship and his 190 million bucks.

Do we need to improve and reduce the cost of renewables? Sure, that's called technology and renewables are a growing field that will continue to improve.

What's the alternative? Keep letting coal plants dump acid rain on us until we're all sick? How high does the rising cancer rate in this world have to go until we realize that we have to address the issue. We can stick our heads in the sand or we can do something constructive. Renewables will enable us to live cleaner longer lives and leave a better planet to future generations. Will we have to address industry? Sure but we have no choice.

Rob

 

[crash325]

your as phony as a $3 bill with Clinton's picture on it and as big a liar as *****. Get off your high horse and quit looking down your nose at normal people. Those that do actually recycle and try live without making excess pollution.

What you are talking about has nothing to do with "green". It's called technological progress.
Technological progress does not care about 'green' or not "green". Marketing promotes and sells products, people buy products. Did your generation say no, "that's not environmentally friendly!" Nope!

And since we're talking about energy ,that one room TV used vacuum tubes. Vacuum tubes use hundreds to thousands of times more electricity than LSI (large scale integration) so three or four TV's today use less energy than they did.

Here's the question: What are you using today? An LCD TV or the old one room tube TV in your parent's house with a CRT? Incandescent lights that use several times more energy or CFL's and LED's that don't? A car with pollution controls or an old car that had nothing more on it than an EGR valve running on leaded gas?

I think your generation made a mess of the planet, they had great ideas in the 60's, but turned into a generation that put the buck first. All the hippies became corporate CEO's. The planet's a mess and I blame your generation for loosing its way.

So again, what are you using today, your car from 1965? Your TV from the same period? When you get a package in the mail does it have peanuts in it? Got air conditioning? A freezer? Or do you truck out to the outhouse and root cellar? Still push a lawn mower or is yours electric? How about that tractor you own? Give up the sickle bar did you? If we have technology we use technology. If we have power we use power, oil has spoiled us.... all of us!

And by the way if you think I'm being hard on your generation you should know it's my generation too, I'm in my late 60's.

Rob

Stupidity - We get cfl bulbs and save energy - All you do is move pollution to China. And import mercury.

Lets all stock up on LED bulbs at only $50 each - Yes the Gov just gave a co. $100,000 to develop and affordable LED bulb - By the way it will be made in China.

Lets all run out and get a new TV (made in China) and save the planet. My TV's don't have tubes they are not that old and are power by transistors.

"We are All Sick from Coal Plant Pollution". I am not sick, have only been to see a doctor 1 time in the last 6 years. If you are sick, Must be because of Coal Power plants.

I got a kick out of your BS about how much less you polluted with driving more than I do in your Subie. How much did you hall in that skate board??? Rarely do I go to town that I don't make it a multi purpose trip. how much cement have you hauled. How many pallets of bricks (used) have you hauled. How many times have you come home with 400 to 500 feet of water pipe??? Or 200 feet of leach line, plus fitting & glue. How do you haul enough T-111 siding to go all the way around a mobile home?? Enough 1/2" cement board to replace the plastic skirting around a mobile home. How do you take 1 person to the airport, another to buy groceries and do your own shopping????

You had nothing to say when I told about making all me & my family's out building out of used material.

You didn't really have anything to say about the "Eagle" kills. Just some stupidity about you killing a bird almost every month. Some one said I didn't live in the right area. Strange. coming back from town almost every power pole had it's own Hawk on it. Ravens (called Crows) feed on the highway all the time.

Your big claim that while I'm bringing in Wood all you have to do if flip a switch. I'll bet you spend more time with all your Chinese junk, keeping it all working than I do with my wood.

I don't have a mower of any kind. Don't was water on lawns and such. If needed once or twice a year I use a weed whacker, yep gas powered.

New Found Greenies Like yourself are phony and can not really look at reality.

Stay in your little dream world - Just TRY to keep your mouth shut when it comes to bad mouthing someone like myself.

 

[Rob-D]

your as phony as a $3 bill with Clinton's picture on it and as big a liar as *****. Get off your high horse and quit looking down your nose at normal people. Those that do actually recycle and try live without making excess pollution.



Stupidity - We get cfl bulbs and save energy - All you do is move pollution to China. And import mercury.

Lets all stock up on LED bulbs at only $50 each - Yes the Gov just gave a co. $100,000 to develop and affordable LED bulb - By the way it will be made in China.

Lets all run out and get a new TV (made in China) and save the planet. My TV's don't have tubes they are not that old and are power by transistors.

"We are All Sick from Coal Plant Pollution". I am not sick, have only been to see a doctor 1 time in the last 6 years. If you are sick, Must be because of Coal Power plants.

I got a kick out of your BS about how much less you polluted with driving more than I do in your Subie. How much did you hall in that skate board??? Rarely do I go to town that I don't make it a multi purpose trip. how much cement have you hauled. How many pallets of bricks (used) have you hauled. How many times have you come home with 400 to 500 feet of water pipe??? Or 200 feet of leach line, plus fitting & glue. How do you haul enough T-111 siding to go all the way around a mobile home?? Enough 1/2" cement board to replace the plastic skirting around a mobile home. How do you take 1 person to the airport, another to buy groceries and do your own shopping????

You had nothing to say when I told about making all me & my family's out building out of used material.

You didn't really have anything to say about the "Eagle" kills. Just some stupidity about you killing a bird almost every month. Some one said I didn't live in the right area. Strange. coming back from town almost every power pole had it's own Hawk on it. Ravens (called Crows) feed on the highway all the time.

Your big claim that while I'm bringing in Wood all you have to do if flip a switch. I'll bet you spend more time with all your Chinese junk, keeping it all working than I do with my wood.

I don't have a mower of any kind. Don't was water on lawns and such. If needed once or twice a year I use a weed whacker, yep gas powered.

New Found Greenies Like yourself are phony and can not really look at reality.

Stay in your little dream world - Just TRY to keep your mouth shut when it comes to bad mouthing someone like myself.

My system is made in the USA.

You missed this but I have a trailer that I use with my Subie which pulls 2700 lbs. My Subie is made in Indiana and Subaru is one of the lowest auto polluters in the world and one of the safest cars on the road.

Your mobile home is not made from recycled materials.

LED's don't cost $50.00 each, you can get them for much less as the technology improves further.

We compared how much gas each of uses in a year, you use more, would you like me to got through the math again?

You're not doesn't mean other people aren't:

Chronic Illness Linked To Coal-mining Pollution, Study Shows

"According to Hendryx, as coal production increases, so does the incidence of chronic illness. Coal-processing chemicals, equipment powered by diesel engines, explosives, toxic impurities in coals, and even dust from uncovered coal trucks can cause environmental pollution that could have a negative affect on public health."

Your big claim that while I'm bringing in Wood all you have to do if flip a switch. I'll bet you spend more time with all your Chinese junk, keeping it all working than I do with my wood.

It's not made in China but I'll take that bet. How much would you like to wager?

"your as phony as a $3 bill with Clinton's picture on it and as big a liar as *****."

Enjoy the soliloquy if you must but it doesn't have anything to do with what we are discussing.

Just TRY to keep your mouth shut when it comes to bad mouthing someone like myself.

I didn't bad mouth you, I disagreed with you. You're the one who's angry and giving orders, not me. Try to calm down, you'll blow a gasket.
Rob

 

[Short Game]

Some of us hippies are still hippies.

 

[Rob-D]

Some of us hippies are still hippies.

That makes two of us!