Goats, and things related...

[dooleysm]

I've been following the chicken thread and seeing all the good info in there. It has helped me a bit with my chicken adventure this year. I thought maybe I could get some good goat information from you guys too...

Here's the background. I've got 10 acres that is moderately hilly, with my house on top of the hill and a 1/2 acre pond towards one corner. The pond dam is a challenge to bush hog and I only do it at most once a year for that reason. I've also got a seepage field and some 'pasture' that I mow once a year or less. My tractor gets a little tippy in some of those areas as well. My fear of mowing steep inclines, combined with the rising price of fuel has gotten me thinking of alternatives to mowing. I was at an auction buying some hens this spring and saw a pygmy goat kid sell for $75. This got me thinking that I could fence that area off and raise pygmy (or regular sized) goats.

I only have 2 experiences with goats. My cousin raised pygmy goats for a while as pets many years ago, but I didn't have much exposure to them, and one time me and a couple friends bought a goat, butchered it, and ate it (yuck). So, I really have no idea what it takes to keep them happy. I figure I can fence off 3-4 acres (including access to the pond). Here's the questions I have so far:

What kind of fence? Barbed wire, electric, or other?
Can I run the fence into the pond and expect that to serve as containment (they won't be compelled to swim out will they?)
Do they need shelter?
Will they need supplemental feed (all year? just in winter? never?)

Anything else I should consider?

My goals here are:

a) avoid mowing hills
b) spend as little as possible (can costs be offset by selling kids?)
c) have some fun
d) not cause myself alot of work (I'd like to be able to forget about them for a week at a time and not have them all die)

Any and all advice would be appreciated.

 

[bmac]

My goals here are:

a) avoid mowing hills
b) spend as little as possible (can costs be offset by selling kids?)
c) have some fun
d) not cause myself alot of work (I'd like to be able to forget about them for a week at a time and not have them all die)

Any and all advice would be appreciated.

I don't know anything about goats and not much about fences. But, I'm pretty sure there are laws against selling your kids. Plus, if you do sell your kids, who's going to take care of you when you're old and feeble and drooling all over yourself? Think through this option carefully before putting your kids up for sale. Particularly to offset the expenses of raising goats. Now, if you were about to face a foreclosure of your home or something really important like buying a new tractor, then selling your kids might be OK. But for goats? I don't think so.

 

[JRobyn]

Only second-hand knowledge; my FIL raises mixed Boer goats, mostly as pets.

Goats like to climb and can be quite athletic, so good fence is a must - he uses 6" wire fabric. The little/dumb ones can stick their heads through this and get horns stuck. Then the big ones will beat up on their behinds, so it generally doesn't happen too much, but he's got one that is too dumb to learn, so he always has to watch out for her, or tie her away from the fence. I guess alternatives would be 4" grid, or electric.

I don't THINK they swim(?). They don't drink whole lot, I think he's putting out about 3 or 4 gallons a day for about 15 goats.

Once the billies/bucks get big, they can be very mean, obstinate, ornery, etc. Plan to castrate and then borrow one for breeding or sell em young!

He's made a "goat house" and puts them up at night to make sure coyotes can't get to them, but I don't really think much shelter is needed. A three-side or run-in would probably do fine.

He puts out some supplementall feed, but it's really not necessary. Goats love to eat dry leaves, tree bark, and most anything, but surprisingly there are some seemingly tasty items they avoid (honeysuckle). Go figger.

- Jay

 

[scgargoyle]

Goats can (and do) climb, and they can (and do) jump. I've seen a pygmy go right over a 4' fence from a stand still. Once out, they will immediately climb on top of the most expensive car around, unless its yours. They'll eat grass, but actually prefer brush. Billies are not only mean, they smell terrible, and have incredibly disgusting habits during mating season. I think they are pretty easy to keep, and a lot of fun, but you'll need to make sure they are safe from predators. If I were actually away from my place for a week, I'd have someone look in on them. Oh yeah- we want pictures when you get them!

 

[eanjay]

Had goats for about twelve years, French Alpine! Fun, easy to keep and look after. Started with a Doe and her kid, and once she learned the boundries of the property, never had to worry about fences. She was the Queen and kept all the rest that came 'in-line and in-check'. Had to fence the garden in though, and forget about flowers or trees you might like to cultivate.

Most of the year, they eat 'wild' with a little cracked corn or goat feed at milking time. In the winter, they get by on 'rough hay' - they starve on the good stuff.

The milk is good, easy to digest, tastes fine and makes good yogurt. Needs to be handled well, and cooled as soon as possible.

As was mentioned, they can turn in to pets with kids and a wife around - start with a couple, and end up with a zoo. Makes it hard when culling the males as meat - at least when the kids find out that the lamb from the freezer ain't lamb!

Don't bother with a buck - they stink to high heaven and can be fiesty. Borrow if you have too, or better, take the Doe to the buck if you can.

eanjay

 

[RichZ]

My wife and I own a goat farm. Goats must have shelter, they cannot handle being out in wet weather. They must be fed hay and grain whenever fresh pasture is not available, so they need to be fed at least half of the year. Fencing must be very secure, as they are extremely intelligent and athletic. They can learn to open almost any gate, if they can reach the latch. Once they see you operate it a few times, they know how it works. I use Red Brand Non-Climb 4 foot woven wire fencing held up with 6 foot T-posts, spaced 6 - 8 feet apart. You can get the Red Brand fencing at Tracotr Supply.

 

[tallyho8]

Goats are much harder to keep fenced in than horses or cattle and require a sturdy mesh fence. Pygmy goats are no good for keeping your brush down, you must get brush goats. Goats do not like to get wet and are very unhappy without shelter.

 

[BungeeII]

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents...

The goat experience can be a good one and a bad one.

Bad. ( or is that baaaad )
Males stink beyond words. Their stink is so bad, the space they walk through stinks even after they've left. I've attributed their stink and inability to think past their own reproductive system to the inordinate size of their gonads. Our pony blushed each time the billy was near. The sack was calloused from dragging the ground. I'm not fixated on this myself, I just want anyone reading this to know that these poor creatures have a drive that is unseen in any other animal. Each time a billy has to pee, it'll turn its head to pee in it's own beard and then do the lip curl thing to see if he's still the dominate one, I guess. The fact that a measurable part of its own body weight is in testicles has to be a factor. I imagine there is a tremendous amount of testosterone coursing through their veins.

OK, that was a little graphic and probably humorous, but there's mores...
Our Corgi made the mistake of not paying attention to the billy. The billy reared up and head-butted our corgi right on his back. This happened about 2 years ago, and was eventually our dogs demise as we just put him down a few weeks ago due to severe problems related to that injury.

Now, what's the good...
Our female had a male kid that we immediately neutered, whose name is Junior. Just this past weekend while I was sitting on the porch he came up to inspect my infant son and then went about scratching the welcome mat to make a comfortable place to lay down. He's a pet just like a dog. Without the mammoth glands, he has virtually no odor at all and is not at all interested in his or any other animals urine.

A small heard will keep the fields mowed quite well, but they love trees and leaves more than grass. They will beg and beg for their fill of food during the winter months and they appreciate a good shelter as much as any dog does. Their appreciation for water is just slightly this side of cats.

We kept a four wire electric fence to keep them contained. The female had a freakish ability to just slip right under the bottom wire until we learned how low to keep it.

The goat experiment has left us with Junior, whom we all adore, but it also cost us Magnus (the corgi) who I think about and miss every day. At the end of the day, they'll likely keep your lawn mowed, but you'll find they extract a lot more affection from you than a chicken, cow or pig. (And for many, cats.)

 

[dooleysm]

The talk about the males stinking reminded me of one thing from my cousin's goat experiment. His wife couldn't stand the smell of the males peeing on their beards so she cut them all off (their beards). I also recall the males being aggressive, but they were so small that when they reared up to headbutt you, they only reached to mid-thigh. Could be painful if they got you in the right (or maybe that's the 'wrong') spot, but generally you could just shove them away like you would a dog.

Anyway, it seems like you all are recommending more fencing than I was hoping. I was thinking I could just run maybe 2 strands of barbed wire. I'm afraid that a 4' woven wire fence is going to get expensive for how much I was planning to fence. I'll have to get a better idea of the length of fence I need and price it all out. Seems like 6' T-posts are running about $3 here and I don't know how much woven wire fence is, but I know everything metal is higher than I'd like.

It also seems like the pygmy goats may not keep everything mowed down like I want.

 

[weldingisfun]

We have been raising Boer goats for about eight years. It is fun and it is frustrating at the same time. Most all of our goat savvy has come from experience, both the good and the bad. Mostly good, fortunately.
First of all, if you are unable or unwilling to invest in good fencing, forget about getting goats. We were told that the way to test a fence to see if it will hold goats is by throwing a bucket of water against it. If the water gets through, so will the goats. That is only a slight exaggeration. The best fencing is made by Red Brand (sold at TSC http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay_10551_10001_36224_______14345|14359|14369|36224?listingPage=true copy and paste) it is pricey and as you already said anything made of steel is going up in price. You can get away with T-posts every 10 feet. You asked if you can run your fence into your pond? Yes, but if you do, forget about your idea of using electric . Goats don't even like to get their feet wet, so you need not worry about them swimming.
Ditto with all the comments on the buck (billy). Unless you want to become a breeder, you don't want one on your property.
Goats do need shelter. With you living in Indiana where it gets cold and snows, you'll need a building/shed to protect them from the harsh weather, figure 5 to 6 square feet per animal.
Now, if with all that said and if you have not become discouraged, go for it. Get yourself a few does and enjoy them. Consider the Boer, it is a hardy breed. Check this Web site, it will give you an idea what is in your area and the cost. http://www.goatclassifieds.com/index.php

Walking H Boer Goats