3-Point Hitch help - 3-point hitch control lever question

[Soundguy]

I contacted the dealer that I purchased the tractor from and he said the Draft function is no longer available. Sorry to hear that I was really looking forward to using it for bush hogging.

Wow.. I simply can't imagine -wanting- to use draft control for mowing.

Every tractor i've seen that was draft control only.. the owner used limit chains or an aftermarket position control scheme to mow with.. VS the draft... Draft is designed for ground engaging implements.. etc.. ( just ask H Ferguson and H ford.. )

Soundguy

 

[greg_g]

Wow.. I simply can't imagine -wanting- to use draft control for mowing.

Nor can I Chris. When composing my previous response about what draft control actually is, I figured he must have confused it with some sort of hydraulic toplink capability.

Having flexible toplink brackets on both mowers, I do use my after-market HTL them; fully retracted for lift/transport, and partially extended for mowing. But - obviously - draft control is disabled when mowing.

//greg//

 

[Soundguy]

, I figured he must have confused it with some sort of hydraulic toplink capability. ... obviously - draft control is disabled when mowing.

//greg//

Very well could be.

Soundguy

 

[pej2945]

My fault, I was under the impression that the draft control would extend out when the implement excreted its full weight and in turn would drop the rear of the implement. I’m new to the 354 still in the learning curve. It’s taking a lot of getting use to after using my 284 for the last 3 years. Thanks for info!

 

[Soundguy]

My fault, I was under the impression that the draft control would extend out when the implement excreted its full weight and in turn would drop the rear of the implement. I’m new to the 354 still in the learning curve. It’s taking a lot of getting use to after using my 284 for the last 3 years. Thanks for info!

I think you will find.. that when dealing with the 3pt hits setup.. and draft control systems.. most will be similar.. that is... I doubt you will find a factory 3pt draft sensing lift that exerts down pressure via the toplink.. ( And I'm not talking about a top N tilt application either.. )

Soundguy

 

[dieselsmoke1]

Using draft control for mowing is really not that far a stretch, guys, I done it many times.

In my experience, if a bush hog with a single tail wheel is not supported at the front by lift arms or some chain check device, all the downward force balanced on the top link and the tail wheel, it will wobble from side to side a little, as there will be some loose motion in the lift arms.

You can use position control to pick the front of the hog up an inch or so to hold it level and stable, fiddling with it many times as the lay of the land changes, assuming it does.

Or you can set a good draft control to provide a little lift, just enough to take the play out of the top link and tighted up the lift arms, drop the position control and roll with the ground contours up and down, never giving cutting height another thought.

For mowing flat ground it would be a convenience only, position control would work just as good.

Based on previous TBN threads about the usefulness of draft control, doubt many will agree. However not only does this method work on contours, it works very well.

 

[greg_g]

However not only does this method work on contours, it works very well.

I thought at first what you describe might just be a Mahindra thing. But upon closer reading, sounds like part of the trouble you have with position control is because of a rigid toplink. Doesn't your rotary cutter have a flexible toplink bracket? If so, you should let out about six inches of slack in your toplink before you start mowing. When you're finished, take up the slack so the toplink is rigid again - pick up the mower, and head for the barn. Unless you also have a TPH leakdown problem, that precludes any need for draft control or check chains.

//greg//

 

[Soundguy]

Using draft control for mowing is really not that far a stretch, guys, I done it many times.

In my experience, if a bush hog with a single tail wheel is not supported at the front by lift arms or some chain check device, all the downward force balanced on the top link and the tail wheel, it will wobble from side to side a little, as there will be some loose motion in the lift arms.

You can use position control to pick the front of the hog up an inch or so to hold it level and stable, fiddling with it many times as the lay of the land changes, assuming it does.

Or you can set a good draft control to provide a little lift, just enough to take the play out of the top link and tighted up the lift arms, drop the position control and roll with the ground contours up and down, never giving cutting height another thought.

For mowing flat ground it would be a convenience only, position control would work just as good.

Based on previous TBN threads about the usefulness of draft control, doubt many will agree. However not only does this method work on contours, it works very well.

I'm not sure where you are getting your geometry from. When a 3pt rear mower is hitched up.. the weight should be divided and resting on the tail wheel, and the lower lift arms... the toplink is not supporting "downward pressure" of the mower. Think of the lower lift arms as a pivot point.. as the tailwheen goes up, the toplink is in compression ( once any freeplay is exhausted ).. and when the tailwheel goes down ( and the freeplay is exhausted) the toplink is now in negative compression If you have draft sensing hyds, and they are adjusted correctly, then when the toplink is in negative compression.. this will be sensed as high draft.. it will think an implement is being sucked deeper intot he ground.. and will lift the mower.. To illustrate this.. say you are mowing, and the tailwheel finds a low spot... then the mower lifts... leaving you with an unmowed patch.. nice huh...

Now the reverse of that is also true.. When the toplink is in compression.. this will relaxe the hyds as there is low/no draft forces... thus the lift will lower to whatever point you have it set as the lowest travel point in the draft setting. To illustrate this.. if you ar mowing and your tailwheel rools over an ant mount, then the lift can drop and scalp.. if you have it set low enough... Also not nice..

Owning a draft only tractor I can tell you.. check chains to set the lowest limit of downward travel, and a relaxed hitch are about the best options for a setup with no position control.

As for following the contour of the land...?? I don't see where position control will not do this for you. Lift the mower with the 3pt.. adjust the toplink so there is about equal play in the flexible link end on the mower, and then go... 3pt lifts for 95% of tractors don't have down pressure.. the lift can travel upwards freely. Don't believe me? Go use your 3pt control and lift arms to mid point.. now grab those arms.. you can lift htem right up... The are not sollidly coupled between the 3pt rockshaft and the hyd cyl.. Most tractors have a dogbone and cup type coupling.

If mowing in draft mode was so awesome.. there would not have been so many position control schemes that came out in the 30's and 40's for Ford 9n/2n and ferguson TX-20/30 tractors.

One thing to add. To make mowing easier.. you mower needs a flexible attach point for the toplink. many mowers use a "U" shaped piece that can rotate, or have a slot cut for the toplink pin to ride in. I have mowers with both types.

Uniformity of cut is what you want when mowing... Having a lift on a tractor that moves on it's own is counterproductive, unless you want to keep you hand on the draft controll 100% of the time and look back alot.

Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

I thought at first what you describe might just be a Mahindra thing. But upon closer reading, sounds like part of the trouble you have with position control is because of a rigid toplink. Doesn't your rotary cutter have a flexible toplink bracket? If so, you should let out about six inches of slack in your toplink before you start mowing. When you're finished, take up the slack so the toplink is rigid again - pick up the mower, and head for the barn. Unless you also have a TPH leakdown problem, that precludes any need for draft control or check chains.

//greg//

After re-reading his post.. i kinda was thinking the same thing.. He stated that he thought his toplink was carrying weight.. which.. due to geometry.. it doesn't really.. though it can be under compression.. and if so.. I'd agree.. he does not have it hooke dup correctly.. or his mower is not setup properly.. and that is why he is choosing the draft control as a work around for the problem.. etc.

Soundguy

 

[dieselsmoke1]

After re-reading his post.. i kinda was thinking the same thing.. He stated that he thought his toplink was carrying weight.. which.. due to geometry.. it doesn't really.. though it can be under compression.. and if so.. I'd agree.. he does not have it hooke dup correctly.. or his mower is not setup properly.. and that is why he is choosing the draft control as a work around for the problem.. etc.

Soundguy

Dang, I've been hooking up to this hog for 40 some years, worn out 4 sets of blades, replated the deck with 3/16" and cut strips from a motor grader blade to make new skids......and I've been hooking it up wrong all this time.

The top of the hog A frame is rigid. The linkage bar is rigid. Compression on the linkage bar combined with gravity on the center tail wheel creates a balance of sort and will allow the hog to wobble a little, in so much as the loose motion in the lift arms will allow. Add a little vertical tug on the lift arms via the draft, not nearly enough to lift the hog, and the problem goes away. The hog stays level and floats over uneven terrain with no operator interaction as would be required using fixed position control.

Regarding needing to constantly adjust the draft setting, not the case. Remember, draft does not care about the position of the lift arms in the range of motion. It reacts to compression on the top link receiver, nothing else. Assuming top link compression load remains constant, draft will exert the same vertical lifting force on the lift arms be they 3" from the bottom or 3" from the top of range of motion.

IMHO most folks do not know how to use draft or how sensative a good system can be. Take a 135 for example, if working correctly and adjusted properly, a person can stand behind the tractor and cause the lift arms to raise and lower with just the pressure on one hand on the top link receiver. This is easy enough to verify if there are doubts.

Never thought I wanted a floating top link before, but my current piece does not have draft control on it, so I'll probably rig one up and use position control. I'll be pleasantly surprised if I'm as satisfied.

I have no doubt the methods described by posters here will work. I also have absolutely no doubt the method I described will work. Comes down to what you're working with and how you want to do it.