Hills: Forwards or Backwards?

[scruffy]

Let me first say your hypothetical situations are interesting. With that said, I will relate a factual situation, using an Oliver 550 rubber tire with FEL and 72" Rotovator. Picture steep hill, requiring a 4X4 to negotiate, rut (from drainoff) up to 3 foot deep worn in the 'trail'. Tractor is a requirement at upper 'landing' to repair portions of washed out roadbed on upper level to reach and repair vital springbox which is the source and fullfillment of the elderly couples daily water requirements. Do you back up this hill filling the ruts with the Tiller, or do you work your way up the hill filling the ruts with rock and dirt as you go? (Like to see filling those ruts with a tiller!) Choice made to tackle the hill front first (550 is a 2X drive tractor) compacting ruts as filled and as much as possible. Reached the top level in a half days work, bypassing a downhill side washout, where it was possible to squeeeeeeeze by to work on up the hill. Upper level consisted of one boggy area that was paddled through, filling a wash out on far side, then hauling rock from mountain side down to boggy area filling with rock (5 to 9 inch) and dirt to solidify the area. Addition decision (due to weight on FEL) to back down the mountain trail with rock to fill the previous bypassed washout. 3rd or 4th trip down through a steep cut, grade % unknown, but uncomfortable and only accessable by 4X4 pickup or utility vehicle, brake linkage broke (fork in transaxle) now what do you do? No brakes, in neutral as you had just stopped, edged back up and dumped a little rock in one rut that had not compacted sufficiently prior, and was holding with brakes while shifting back into reverse. Somehow, the bucket got dumped, tilted blade first into the ground, lifting front wheels up a hair, and the tiller got slammed down. It was enough to stop the tractor, allow brown stuff to be wiped off the seat, go down to the house, get a blazer and drive up to the tractor, manage to squeeze the tractor by the blazer, hook a logging chain to the FEL, and use the brakes, 4 wheel drive low range of the blazer, and the reverse gear of the tractor to bring that ^%$%#@&* Oliver down off the ridge!
True story, and I don't care to repeat the no brake experiment on that blankety ridge again!

 

[Thomas]

Glenn,
You forward alot of good information.
When I mowe my slopes w/ the rear mower I rather back up the slopes to the point where I feel comfortable,than slowly in 4wd low range mowe down hill.
I keep my front end loader low to the ground also use tire chains for I have truf tires.
Different weather condition also plays a role when mowing hill sides,so I guess common sence is a major factor.
Those spots that are hard to get with the mower aren't worth flipping the tractor or getting gray hair, /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gifso I carry good size weed trimmer./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
Have fun and most of all be careful.

Stay safe and /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif

Thomas..NH

 

[TomG]

I also think I would feel more comfortable sliding down a hill forwards--looking at what was coming up from the bottom. However, the conventional wisdom I've heard is that chances of a recovery are pretty slim in a slide. They are mostly ridden to the bottom with the hope of not hitting anything or rotating and rolling over. I don't think either steering or braking work very well in a slide, because there already is no traction. I don't think a slide is going to stop unless the ground surface changes or more traction is gained from something other than the wheels--the loader blade maybe.

I don't think I'd want to be on a steep slope without a big whack of ballast in the loader, so digging in the blade probably isn't an option. However, down-force on the bucket bottom would add traction. Since all this goes outside my experience, I can only guess that an uphill bucket would be better at dragging the tractor to a stop than a downhill bucket.

I think what is most important is to have a sense of what will minimize the chances of a slide in the first place. I believe slides are pretty uncontrollable once they start. What ever ballast arrangement and direction maintains the most traction is probably the safest. Others mentioned using the diff lock. I forgot the diff lock in my first post, which probably means I would forget to engage it if I was actually on a steep slope. These discussions aren't a bad substitute for experience. Thanks guys.

 

[TomG]

I know you've said from time to time that 'what feels unsafe probably is.' I've never heard disagreement with that, and that's where I'm at. The reverse, 'what feels best probably is safest,' also may be true, but also probably depends on having experience, which you have and I don't.

My object is trying to gain enough experience to do what is right on a tractor without thinking about it. To me, thinking about it isn't reliable since it takes too long. In soccer, I had countless training sessions and practice games before I'd be allowed on the field during a real game. You have to get to the point where you just do the right things without thinking about it, and everybody around you had confidence that you won't screw up. Guess law-enforcement is like that too. I don't have my practices and coaches any more, but I do have this forum. It's pretty good.

 

[gordon]

Tom the first sentence of your post says in all (if it feels unsafe it probably is) very good words to live by on a tractor.
Gordon

 

[Bird]

Glenn, I don't disagree with you. I can envision such a situation where going forward up the hill might be the only option. Personally, I'd just call for a helicopter./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif About 4 years ago, a fellow in his late 60s (named Lee), with lots of experience (and a professional mechanic), who lives about 3 miles from me was doing some land clearing in rough terrain with a big old articulated front end loader (no ROPS or seat belt). The old tractor had been partially restored and painted so it looked good, but had no brakes (everything else working hydraulically). Another neighbor had car trouble and walked back into the woods to get Lee to come help him. They both got on that tractor to come out and Lee drove up a steep hill forward (not so steep that I'd be afraid to back my tractor up it) and the engine stalled near the top. The tractor didn't turn over, but rolled back down the hill and slammed into a big tree throwing both men off. The guy who had gone to Lee for help finally managed to walk out and get Lee's wife to call for help. I was first on the scene and called for a Care-Flight helicopter. Lee's back was broken and he's now in a wheelchair for life. If he had been backing up the hill, he probably could have steered enough to avoid that tree, but who knows. And of course, the other thing is that I wouldn't have been there in the first place with brakes that I knew didn't work.

Bird

 

[W5FL]

Interesting, I lock both front and rear differential locks on the axles in 4WD when I need traction, put 1400# ballast in the tires, but it will be a cold day when I go down a hill backwards! I back up slopes and go down forward. If you have that bucket full out front, get it nearly on the ground. My tractor has gears and moves very slowly in 1 st gear. The rear wheels are also over 6 1/2 foot wide. I tractor that is not properly ballasted can get you in a dangerous situation with an overloaded bucket, but if you are in that condition, you have the wrong equipment. A tracked loader is capable of operating on 30 degree slopes, tractors are not.

The real stability case you are missing (does not occur in Texas very often) is with the tractor tires solidly fronzen to the ground. You can get enough torque to turn the tractor over backwards in less time than you can get off of the throttle. It has killed many people that were unaware of the implications of what they were doing. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

I stretched 400 foot of 2x4 no climb horsewire today from the loader bucket. About 3000# tension in the fence. Didn't even turn the tractor over. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Wen, I agree, I always want to be pointed down hill, going up or going down, it's a heck of a lot easier to stick the loader bucket in the ground going down than the backhoe if you need emergency "brakes"!

And those "6 1/2 foot wide wheels" you mentioned?

Are you talking about the rear track (wheels that wide APART) or have you been working with Mark Chalkley and purchased some FANTASTIC wheels and tires?!!!/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif