How to get power beyond

[Brink953]

I have a 88 4610 with dual pumps and closed center hydraulics and one set of remotes. I need power beyond to run a laser controlled box blade. Can I hook up my hoses to the remote and tie down the handle and have this work without any heat issues? I don't need any other hydraulics when using the box blade. I will post pictures with my setup. Thanks

 

[Brink953]

I had one person tell me to use NH Part Number 9613790 but I don't think that will work for closed center hydraulics. Im not how to plumb that part as well. It's really confusing with this type of system or Im over thinking it. Just trying to make it simple. Thanks.

 

[LD1]

Closed center hydraulics and power beyond are incompatible terms.

Power beyond is what is needed on an open center system.

Close center hydraulics use a variable displacement pump. IE: constant pressure, variable flow. So there would be no heat concerns using a remote and mechanically holding the lever open.

Open center hydraulics use a fixed displacement pump and constantly has to flow oil. Thus the need for power beyond.

Closed center you can basically TEE off any pressure line and drop a valve in if needed

 

[Harry in Ky]

You might consider a Tisco HV5902 valve block. That will give you direct flow from the tractor's internal pump and about 8 GPM. Assuming that would be sufficient for your laser system? Using the current remote valve tied back will work but that's forcing twice as much flow through the system. That might work but might also create some heat while using it, and also make the operation of the cylinders faster. That may or may not be a good thing. Using the remote is obviously the simplest route to take. Nothing to add but a bungy cord. With the sandwich block you have extra plumbing, couplers, and the need for a "loop" connection when the laser package is not connected. Also it would require a little tweaking of the steel lines in your first photo.

ADAPTER KIT [HV5902] : Tractoropolis, Vintage Tractor Parts Headquarters

Tractoropolis ADAPTER KIT [HV5902] - Adapter kit. Can replace OEM adapter plate 9613790. Adapter plate in HV5902 kit features three ports: (1) pressure port, (1) power-beyond port and (1) return port. All ports 3/4 - 16 ORB. Kit contains adapter plate, o-rings, mounting bolts, plugs, and...

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These are available from a number of sources.

 

[LouNY]

Are you sure that you have closed center hydraulics. Most Fords of that age are open center and per TractorData your 4610 should be open center with either an 8 or 14 gpm pump. Locking your exiting valve into position will flow considerable flow to the controls of the box blade is that control valve an open center valve or are you going to be dead heading your hydraulics and running on the pressure relief.

 

[Harry in Ky]

Are you sure that you have closed center hydraulics. Most Fords of that age are open center and per TractorData your 4610 should be open center with either an 8 or 14 gpm pump. Locking your exiting valve into position will flow considerable flow to the controls of the box blade is that control valve an open center valve or are you going to be dead heading your hydraulics and running on the pressure relief.

I don't think he really knows just WHAT he has. He's thinking closed center because that's the nomenclature that was used with the Ford "deluxe" remote valve.

It's actually the same dual pump system Ford had used on a number of models during that era. It's two open center systems combined into one closed center valve. I'm "guessing" that the laser system valve(s) would be open center. (maybe he can confirm that)

If I were doing this I think I would first try plugging into the existing remote, turn the flow control on said remote down to minimum flow. Tie the handle back and try it out. See if the laser system preforms and if so how well it performs. Maybe adjust the flow control up if needed. Check periodically for abnormal heat build up. It's certainly worth a try before investing in any additional parts and modifications without knowing it's necessary.

I know of a local firm that uses similar scraper systems on Kubota tractors (also open center) and they have added additional flow controls to reduce flow through their units because oil heating problems.

 

[Brink953]

It is an open center with closed center load sensing valves. The laser is open center with a flow control as well. I appreciate all the info. I will plug in to the existing remote and tie the lever up and see how it works. I will let everyone know how it works. Any and all info is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[LouNY]

I don't think he really knows just WHAT he has. He's thinking closed center because that's the nomenclature that was used with the Ford "deluxe" remote valve.

It's actually the same dual pump system Ford had used on a number of models during that era. It's two open center systems combined into one closed center valve. I'm "guessing" that the laser system valve(s) would be open center. (maybe he can confirm that)

If I were doing this I think I would first try plugging into the existing remote, turn the flow control on said remote down to minimum flow. Tie the handle back and try it out. See if the laser system preforms and if so how well it performs. Maybe adjust the flow control up if needed. Check periodically for abnormal heat build up. It's certainly worth a try before investing in any additional parts and modifications without knowing it's necessary.

I know of a local firm that uses similar scraper systems on Kubota tractors (also open center) and they have added additional flow controls to reduce flow through their units because oil heating problems.

I'm not familiar with that setup, it doesn't even sound feasible. An open center pump going against a closed center valve is a dead headed system. Unless they put in some kind of bypass control valve. I grew up it was strictly open center systems, then Deere came out with their closed center which didn't play well with many other systems.
Then now it seems like most all are closed center load sensing CCLS, and have been for quite awhile. I know when we picked up a used JD forge chopper several years and started trying to use it on the 7220 and 7130 IH Magnums the John Deere control box did not play well with them or the JD 4430's on the farm the old JD 4020 could run it fine everything else labored and over heated till we got it figured out. We ended up with an electric normally open valve to act as an open flow path, which we closed when we toggled one of the JD electric valves. With the flow valve set to minimum. Those load sensing valves sense when the handle moves the load sense opens the pump and full strokes.

 

[Harry in Ky]

It is an open center with closed center load sensing valves. The laser is open center with a flow control as well. I appreciate all the info. I will plug in to the existing remote and tie the lever up and see how it works. I will let everyone know how it works. Any and all info is appreciated. Thanks.

Don't forget about the flow control on the back of the remote valve. (assuming it works) I would set it at minimum for openers, see how the unit works and adjust up if need be.

 

[Tx Jim]

The Ford 5610 that I owned several yrs ago had closed center load sensing selective control valves & breakaway couplers. When breakaway couplers stopped operating as designed I learned to dislike that CCLS system. Having previously served as a JD dealer service manager for 13 yrs I was very familiar with JD closed center hyd's but I disliked Ford's CCLS breakaway couplers. In later years 5610 accidently caught on fire & solved my Ford hyd problems.