Oil & Fuel Hydraulic Oil Replacement

[Wacky]

Heat is a big issue. The more expensive hydro oils are more resistant to changes in viscosity as temperatures rise. They don't thin out as much. Also better cold weather performance than Wally/TSC brands by using better base stock or additive packages.

My GC2300 blew out the hydro filter at start up on a cold morning. This was with the factory fill at 36 hours of use. Did the 50 hour service early :laughing:
Permatran went in to replace it. A lot better on the cold starts. The permatran lasted @100 hours due to water contamination and then put in the equivalent of SUDT. Sounds even better, hot or cold.

I consider the SUDT money well spent. The GC holds less than 5 gallons. An extra $10-20/year for me. Take a look at repair costs, and the fluid doesn't seem that expensive. Just my :2cents:.

What is the SUDT equivalent of permatran III?

 

[Soundguy]

Soundguy, no doubt. The Warren stuff is typically 10w-20, as I understand it, while Kubota SUDT is something like 5w-20. Doesn't seem that radical a difference so most guys suspect some other additive package, but who knows.

The sub-cuts are widely reported with this issue. I didn't necessarily believe it wholesale, but ..... I do now. The GC of the OP may not react this way. I have no idea if Massey markets their own fluids to the extent that Kubota/Deere do.

if the oil actually puked out I can't imagine it was an addative issue.. unless it was foaming or something. my guess would be temp / viscosity stability and pressures. I know some NH's will use a thinner utf oil and a different hyd filter int he winter.. otherwise they get leaks.

soundguy

 

[bp fick]

Again, a big fan of Warren Oil, the packager of something like 80% of store brand oils. Really, really like the company and their "right priced" products.

But in my scut, the premium universal foamed, the HST whined worse than ever, the FEL jerked, etc. All kinds of craziness I did not expect. Remarkable really, to put in SUDT and have it instantly return to normal. I cannot explain, I merely report. FWIW

 

[Soundguy]

can't explain it? you just did. Exactly what I mentioned IE.. viscosity and or foaming.

for whatever reason.. the design of your machine, climate variables, etc.. was not compatible with the type or amount of anti-foam addatives in the oil.. and thus a problem ensued. Not a hit on the machine or the oil. they just didn't play nice together

as you say.. easilly fixed.

soundguy

 

[bp fick]

can't explain it? you just did. Exactly what I mentioned IE.. viscosity and or foaming.

for whatever reason.. the design of your machine, climate variables, etc.. was not compatible with the type or amount of anti-foam addatives in the oil.. and thus a problem ensued. Not a hit on the machine or the oil. they just didn't play nice together

as you say.. easilly fixed.

soundguy

That's what I meant by couldn't explain. For whatever reason.

I have not heard these kind of reports from larger tractors, btw. Again, not to beat a dead horse, but it just seems more prevalent with the scuts, which the OP has, otherwise, I'd not blink at a Warren Oil product.

 

[Soundguy]

my guess on that is oil and sump volume.

if you have a 15g sump and 13 g of oil.. it will heat less.. and have more time to settle entrained air out than a 5g sump with 4g of oil in it.. which might be circulating too fast to settle.. etc.

just a guess anyway..

soundguy

 

[Loon Lake Louie]

I sure appreciate all the response to my querry. Having read the posts, I find it hard to disagree with those of you who say the Manufacturers oil, even when it costs more, is not worth the risk of NOT using. I was looking to save some money, but maybe the money I would save on the oil would be spent 10x or more on repairs. I sure don't want that so I think I'll get the Agco recommended oil. Thanks everyone for responding. Your candid comments are very much appreciated.

 

[MESSMAKER]

I think the fluid thing is a bit of "Snake Oil". If they made they made the fluid, I might give a pass but it is not good engineering to design a product that requires a non standard product for a minor gain in performance. Make a product that can perform with what the rest use or make a higher standard fluid and tell everyone why it is better and let that become the new standard. They price the branded fluid high enough to insure a nice profit, but usually not enough to scare you off. The oil companies that make the fluid would have you change fluids every month with the highest profit margin product they could sell you. You don't hear them out there talking you out of a 3000 mile oil change when it is almost never necessary.

 

[bp fick]

I think the fluid thing is a bit of "Snake Oil". If they made they made the fluid, I might give a pass but it is not good engineering to design a product that requires a non standard product for a minor gain in performance. Make a product that can perform with what the rest use or make a higher standard fluid and tell everyone why it is better and let that become the new standard. They price the branded fluid high enough to insure a nice profit, but usually not enough to scare you off.

Understand your point of view. This isn't just about blind "dealer only" loyalty. The problem with the subcuts with hydro transmissions is, as Soundman pointed out, is that their capacity is quite small. They run awfully hot. All the parts, pumps and passageways are relatively small, by nature, as these are very compact tractors. There isn't a whole lot of oil to exchange and the only cooling is rather passive.

The result is that these subcut hydros whine and make heat like nobodies business. They just perform best on the higher end, very low vis hydro fluids.

One has to have had spent some time with a Kubota BX, John Deere 2305, Massey GC series, etc to appreciate how wonderful, but how fussy these little guys really are.

Look on a back of the house brand UTF and you'll find they meet a standard Kubota UDT, for example, but not the specs for the Super UDT. Or, they'll meet the specs of a standard John Deere fluid, but not the Lo-Vis type.

The needs of a subcut likely represents a smaller market, whereas the stuff they do sell has a much broader customer base.

 

[MESSMAKER]

Understand your point of view. This isn't just about blind "dealer only" loyalty. The problem with the subcuts with hydro transmissions is, as Soundman pointed out, is that their capacity is quite small. They run awfully hot. All the parts, pumps and passageways are relatively small, by nature, as these are very compact tractors. There isn't a whole lot of oil to exchange and the only cooling is rather passive.

The result is that these subcut hydros whine and make heat like nobodies business. They just perform best on the higher end, very low vis hydro fluids.

One has to have had spent some time with a Kubota BX, John Deere 2305, Massey GC series, etc to appreciate how wonderful, but how fussy these little guys really are.

Look on a back of the house brand UTF and you'll find they meet a standard Kubota UDT, for example, but not the specs for the Super UDT. Or, they'll meet the specs of a standard John Deere fluid, but not the Lo-Vis type.

The needs of a subcut likely represents a smaller market, whereas the stuff they do sell has a much broader customer base.

I think I understand what you say. The hydro fluid that goes into my Cub Cadet garden tractor is almost $100 per gallon. The word on the street is that it is nothing special at all, perhaps just thin oil. I hear the argument between the UDT and the Super UDT -standard. Those are different products to me. If your product requires Super UDT, so be it.Let that be known as sub-cut UDT. If it was designed to work with one or the other,let that be known, but don't try to scare everyone with the special formulation bulls**t that is in my opinion smoke and mirrors. Make a good quality fluid that works and sell it at a fair price and we will buy it. Most of us will pay a small premium for a branded product. I want my dealer to make money. I want him to stay around.