Hypothetical Doomsday Scenario

[patrick_g]

I'd go so far as to say the outcome would be sufficiently bad and heIIish if the button were pushed as to classify anyone who would seriously contemplate doing it right along side Idi Amin Dada, Adolph ******, Ming the Merciless, Jaba the Hut, Vlad the Impaler, or any number of Spanish inquisitors such as Torquemada.

Offering lame excuses related to yearning for simpler times is unacceptable wishful thinking devoid of any depth of understanding of the meaning of being responsible for the deaths of so great a percentage of the humans on the planet.

I'm reminded of "A modest Proposal" by Jonathon Swift where he outlined a plan for Preventing the Children of Poor People From Being a Burden on Their Parents or Country, and for Making Them Beneficial to the Public. Swift suggests that impoverished Irish might ease their economic troubles by selling their children as food for rich gentlemen and ladies.

Certainly Jonathon Swift's modest proposal is less grievous than pushing the button. Baby, "the other white meat!"

Pat

 

[Blitzn]

Surviving Katrina is NOT a valid example of how resilient we are and how well we can withstand disaster!!!

Katrina and other disasters only inconvenience a very small portion of the population. The Federal Gov would not survive a loss of all electric powered technology and continue on in a form able to offer aid to anyone. The National Guard, regular military, militias, etc would be unable to feed themselves much less distribute food to large numbers of others. Their infrastructure is dependent on electric stuff too. I'm not sure what level of anarchy might pervade the military but in such a survival situation I think I'd rather NOT see the military anywhere near me. Military... large group of armed people carrying guns and looking for food and water. This isn't Hollywood folks and you won'r see Kevin Costner delivering the mail.

Pat

Having been there, and discussed these scenarios in the Army - it depends on who is in charge. Many of the Officer Corp would refuse such a command as unconstitutional. Besides, whoever said that rendering the US Govt immobile was a bad thing?
Ok - we know Pat would not advocate for the button pushing.
But, if such a button was pushed - I think you will find more American's, indeed humanity more resilient than you give them credit for. From weathering the last ice age, to the plague, to the present, mankind shows a tremendous innovative spirit - and unlike the President, I don't believe the government gets the credit for human successes. :cool2:

 

[brin]

Oh come on, did you really take my response that personally? I wasn't trying to offend you when I pointed out that your "huge blob of text" posts were hard to read. BTW: I happen to be a very good Chess player, when I want to play.

I think creekbend is probably figuring at this point for our country to do away with all tech...we would revert back to the stone age....I mean what tech. do you want to eliminate...cell phones, computers, electricity...?? think about each one of these and how they are used to make our lives more livable...Are there abuses..? Yes...all the texting , video games, cell phone calls, gimmics etc...Would we have been better off staying with the electric typewriters, calculators and go no further....maybe so...but it looks like it is too late now...we are too dependent on the tech for our way of life....think of all the records on computers..etc. I for one agree with Creekbend....I don't want to give up modern conveniences anytime soon and we can't pick and choose which parts of the internet are used or how cell phones are used or the kinds of Movies or videos on tv or games...It is what it is and humanity has brought it where it is...good or bad...I use the good and ignore the bad as best I can...

I think that is what creekbend was getting at...maybe I'm wrong though...

 

[Blitzn]

I'd go so far as to say the outcome would be sufficiently bad and heIIish if the button were pushed as to classify anyone who would seriously contemplate doing it right along side Idi Amin Dada, Adolph ******, Ming the Merciless, Jaba the Hut, Vlad the Impaler, or any number of Spanish inquisitors such as Torquemada.

Offering lame excuses related to yearning for simpler times is unacceptable wishful thinking devoid of any depth of understanding of the meaning of being responsible for the deaths of so great a percentage of the humans on the planet.

I'm reminded of "A modest Proposal" by Jonathon Swift where he outlined a plan for Preventing the Children of Poor People From Being a Burden on Their Parents or Country, and for Making Them Beneficial to the Public. Swift suggests that impoverished Irish might ease their economic troubles by selling their children as food for rich gentlemen and ladies.

Certainly Jonathon Swift's modest proposal is less grievous than pushing the button. Baby, "the other white meat!"

Pat

Interested in Soylent Green? It's improved from Soylent Yellow! We get it Pat, anyone who considers functioning without the benefits of the modern age is a backwater buffoon and should be exterminated by your allegations they are comparable to an IdaAmin or ******.

But you also forget the Washington's who replaced George the III, the lone chinaman in Tiannemen Square, the failure of von Stauffenburg, and more. Human success and goodness trumps evil - but it can take time.
However I can point to many abuses and dysfunctionalities championed by governments - including New Orleans, Detroit, War between the States, Wilson's 14 points of light that led to WW2, the Holocause, the Gulags, the Great Society, Roosevelt's New Deal, etc.

Ok - we know you can't survive without the Federal Govt.

 

[patrick_g]

Having been there, and discussed these scenarios in the Army - it depends on who is in charge. Many of the Officer Corp would refuse such a command as unconstitutional. Besides, whoever said that rendering the US Govt immobile was a bad thing?
Ok - we know Pat would not advocate for the button pushing.
But, if such a button was pushed - I think you will find more American's, indeed humanity more resilient than you give them credit for. From weathering the last ice age, to the plague, to the present, mankind shows a tremendous innovative spirit - and unlike the President, I don't believe the government gets the credit for human successes. :cool2:

Weathering the ice age, dark ages, famine, pestilence, pandemics, and so on and so forth ENTIRELY PALE when compared to the aftermath of pushing the button. Sorry but in my opinion you are definitely in the wishful thinking zone. There are so many unprecedented difficulties and all at once. How do you distribute the thousands of tons of food needed per day to feed one large city much less all the cities, suburbs and the majority of rural population so as to prevent starvation for the first 90 days?

I don't think you are being realistic. I don't mind dissent but please make it thoughtful and realistic not just wishful thinking.

Pat

 

[MasseyWV]

I think you will find more American's, indeed humanity more resilient than you give them credit for. From weathering the last ice age, to the plague, to the present, mankind shows a tremendous innovative spirit

I feel the same way and was actually surprised that some people seemed to take the mere mention of losing all their precious technology as being tantamount to committing heresy. It only strengthens my belief that humans are over dependent on technology.

Humans may be going through a "duh phase" as they yammer away on their cell phones while they drive aimlessly from one place to another burning more and more fuel so they can buy things they don't really need, but when the crap hits the fan, humans can be remarkably resilient, at least some of them can be.

 

[forgeblast]

Surviving it is highly unlikely....I dont know how I feel about that. On one hand there are the Amish that live with out technology and survive, but they have the technology of knowledge on their side. There are also those who if they are able to make it through the first year, would be able to keep going. The shock, and lack of food, comfort, and medical care will take out many of the people unprepared. Books/knowledge will be worth their weight in gold.

 

[patrick_g]

No cars, trucks, buses, trains, or subways, or other mechanized transport requiring electricity or fuel provided by electricity. With no distribution, fuel stores will be quickly exhausted and little or no road traffic will exist, no trains, etc. after a very short period. Even if the means to grow sufficient food to feed ourselves as a country existed (it doesn't without mechanization) without distribution most would rot in the fields and there would be mass starvation and all the chaos appertaining thereunto.

If you disagree with any of my posts, take a look at the original posters hypothetical and then in that light, not some personally reworked variation, make your case. I'm willing to be persuaded by a logical argument based on realistic and believable premises (unlike the hypothetical itself.) Simply asserting the military will be well behaved, great artists will arise out of the minor difficulties, and the indomitable spirit of the American people (hum "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" quietly and respectfully in the background during this part) will triumph over all adversity and return to a simpler time when we could all risk polio, unsafe patent medications, embalmed beef, dawn to dusk labor etc. you know, the good old days!


As detective Columbo used to say, "I have just one more question."

"But, if such a button was pushed - I think you will find more American's, indeed humanity more resilient than you give them credit for."

Well, du-uh, What makes them starvation proof for the first few days or weeks after the supply line/conveyor belt bringing Post Toasties to the supermarket stops running? Logistics is not subject to wishful thinking. It, like gravity, is not subject to negotiation or wishful thinking. If every horse in America were a Clydesdale you still couldn't pull enough carts to keep the vast majority of the population from starving and or freezing the first winter.

Left to their own devices a decent percentage of the rural population might survive after a fashion through subsistence farming B U T they will not be left to their own devices, instead they will be overrun and pillaged by roving bands of armed vandals from the cities and suburbs in such overpowering numbers that armed defense is extremely problematical at best.

Pat

 

[Blitzn]

Weathering the ice age, dark ages, famine, pestilence, pandemics, and so on and so forth ENTIRELY PALE when compared to the aftermath of pushing the button. Sorry but in my opinion you are definitely in the wishful thinking zone. There are so many unprecedented difficulties and all at once. How do you distribute the thousands of tons of food needed per day to feed one large city much less all the cities, suburbs and the majority of rural population so as to prevent starvation for the first 90 days?

I don't think you are being realistic. I don't mind dissent but please make it thoughtful and realistic not just wishful thinking.

Pat

I never said any of our scenarios did not include defining acceptable casualties. I never said that pushing the button would not result in mass chaos.
I believe you are the one in error however, to imagine that such an issue could 1) never occur and 2) the loss of any life is unacceptable.
Beleive me when I tell you, nay assure you, that there are contingencies in place for certain portions of the populace to be protected and well-fed. The remainder - you're on your own.
It was rather comical the movie 2012 - but there are some interesting items. And no, I don't know if we are building arks.

 

[Blitzn]

If you disagree with any of my posts, take a look at the original posters hypothetical and then in that light, not some personally reworked variation, make your case. I'm willing to be persuaded by a logical argument based on realistic and believable premises (unlike the hypothetical itself.) Simply asserting the the military will be well behaved, great artists will arise out of the minor difficulties, and the indomitable spirit of the American people (hum "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" quietly and respectfully in the background during this part) will triumph over all adversity and return to a simpler time when we could all risk polio, unsafe patent medications, embalmed beef, dawn to dusk labor etc. you know, the good old days!
Pat

OK, I looked at the OP - Your answer is no then.
easy - case closed.
There is no argument - it's either yes, or no - would you push it.

Note - you have given this decision to every politician you ever elect - they can decide your fate - whether the A-bomb, H-bomb, or the bullet.