Ideas on Hay Shed floors ?

[RedNeckRacin]

I squish the bales a little bit on the pallets. My spear sticks the whole way through my bales and they are only 4' round. So I put a little downpressure on the spear and pre flatten them for pretty good results. Finish off with two more rows stacked in a pyramid. I only have issues getting the pile started since I free stand them on our lot. Once I get 3 rows in its a piece of cake. I would much rather store them inside if I had the choice though!

 

[eventer79]

Good idea!!

Not to hijack, but there's lots of great thoughts here and would love opinions on this: my hay "shed" is just a little ShelterLogic tent, but it works great with the Moisture Barrier and pallets. Stays dry, air circulates at corners, and I watch it like a hawk (since I am poor, the hay is worth a lot more than the shed, LOL).

I know the ShelterLogic won't last forever, but I needed something fast and cheap. The most common issue is after a few years, the top center seam separates from UV degradation (which I can see easily here in NC, we melt/radiate often). So I was thinking of just staking a silver tarp over top as a makeshift canopy to reflect heat and protect the shed fabric.

Trapping/creating a condensation problem or not? I am adding through vents that will be temperature controlled in the spring and lots of air moves through lower corners. I even stacked with an air tunnel through the middle:

 

[SPYDERLK]

No sweat cover:
Tyvek® Recreational Vehicle Covers

 

[eventer79]

Oooo, Tyvek, that's right, good idea. Hmmm, probably more than $34, but so is the hay, I will explore, thanks!

 

[jerry shannon]

There are many ways to build a hay shed floor floors that can be trafficked by machines loading hay in and out.
A few years ago short of pennies and needing a shed with a solid waterproof traffickable floor on which to store hay I came up with the following solution. It may be useful to others.
I built a steel-framed, steel-sheeted shed measuring 16 metres (52 feet) by 25 metres (83 feet) with a minimum of 4.5 metres (15 feet ) under the purlins. Then came the need to put in a floor.
The solution:
Visit the local quarry crushing granite for aggregate. for road surfacing and concrete etc. Quarries produce huge quantities of crusher dust also known as cracker dust, fines or screenings. The particles are sub 2mm (1/12 of an inch ) in the coarsest grade and like flour in the finest grade. I bought alternating loads of dust, my truck could move 15 tonnes(16.5 US tons) per load and I hauled in 90 tonnes (109 US tons). Cost for the dust, $270.00.
Next I purchased 100 metres (330feet) of builders' film. Black plastic used to put a water proof membrane below a concrete slab, 20 microns thick, I think that translates 50 thousands of an inch. Cost $350.00.
Next came the cement, I do not know your grade but the ordinary cement that is mixed 5;3;1 to make concrete. I bought 12 tonnes (13.2 US tons) in Bulka bags each holding 1 tonne. Cost under $2,000.
Method :
Lay the builders film on the ground which has been levelled and compacted. My dirt is solid so no need to compact it.
Form up the area you can manage. On my own i needed to keep it to just over 4 metres (13.2 ft)or one sixth of the shed depth, by 8 metres (26.4 ft) being half the shed width and 150mm (6inches) deep with the plastic under, the formwork.
This area coincided with my cement ratio and is one twelfth of the floor area so one bulka bag of cement per mix.
Working outside the formed up area, with a front end loader, place enough cracker dust to fill the formed up area. I have a 10 ton 125 hp industrial FEL with a 1.7 cu metre water-level general purpose bucket (no teeth).
Put a conical depression in the pile of cracker dust and the put cement onto/into the top of the cracker dust. Lifted on with the front end loader and dumped via the chute built into the Bulka bag.
Cracker dust is very sharp despite being fine so mixed with cement it is able to bond together well but not as good as concrete with aggregate but nowhere near the price.
Using the FEL turn over the heap mixing the cement and cracker dust thoroughly.
Load the thoroughly mixed cracker dust and cement into the formed up area and screed to reasonably level.
With a plate compacter compact the area thoroughly, then screed to level with the formwork.
Spray water onto the mix using a fine spray but plenty of water until the whole area is flooded and water remains on the top.
Sprinkle liberal quantities of raw cement on the surface of the newly laid and wet floor, and with reasonable amounts of water create a surface slurry that is then trowelled to a smooth surface. The effect is similar to case-hardening steel. This must be done before the recently placed watered material has properly set, that way a good bond is achieved between the mixed material and the cement slurry with the loose cracker dust mixing with the cement slurry .
Use a trowel to bevel the edges or get a rolled edge on the formed up area to give a tidy joint between the various floor panels.
Keep a very fine mist of water on the surface for 12 or more hours.
Repeat in sections until the whole floor is done.
Where any vehicles enter/exit, cast a beam in 5:3:1 concrete and even put some reinforcing mesh on this edge beam to act as a protector.
For the first couple of years I have used more builders film on the top of the concrete until the moisture used in the mix has dissipated .
The floor is not as strong as concrete but stands up to my loader and my truck. My big truck is a a Volvo 4 axle truck grossing o 27.5 tonnes (over 30 US tons).
You cannot work on the floor with hammering or the like as you would a workshop floor. However I use it when clear of hay for servicing machinery and trucks etc. Using jacks for example is no problem.
This gave me nearly 4500 sq feet of heavy duty traffic floor for under $3,000, excluding my time and trucking of materials, but.
including the extra topping cement, formwork , and the plate compacter.


If you do not need water proofing then the mixing can be done after the materials are placed levelled in the formwork. Put in the cracker dust and place the cement evenly across the whole area to be mixed. Then mix the cement into the cracker dust with a rotary hoe being careful to minimise the penetration below the cracker dust to prevent contamination of the mix with soil. Compact the mix and water down as set out in the method above then top off with slurry and provide any edge protection necessary.

Floor has been in use for 6 seasons now and has stood up well to usage. I damaged an area with hay fork impact but just cleaned out the broken material, mixed a small quantity of cracker dust and cement in a cement mixer including water and a bonding agent in the proportion 1:10 water. Applied a small mix of 1 part bonding agent to 3 water sprayed onto the damaged area . Put the cement CD mix in the damage and trowel level.

For a couple of years I used builders film to protect the hay placed on the floor from the water contained in the cement. When using builders film I sprinkle a thin layer of dry hay to stop fresh bales from sweating against the plastic. About 10 bales of hay left over from last season are enough to give sufficient coverage over the entire floor to prevent sweating.

Cimate here is Mediterranean with hot dry summers, occasional thunderstorms and wet winters with minima on around 20 days of no less than minus 5*C, and with about another 20 or so days with fog of a few hours duration, usually no more than 8 hours.

Soil however retains soil moisture even in the driest summers sufficient to cause mould damage to hay in contact within one week of placement .
Unlike my fellow Western Australian, snakes are not an issue for me but saying that had a Dugite (poisonous variety) observed moving in this year but not seen since,......YET. Mice are an issue eating twine on bales and damaging bales. Pallets give mice a refuge and clear access to the entire stack, so pallets are not a viable storage system.

I know that this type of floor will not suit everyone because of differing materials availability and climate but hope someone finds this of use.

This sounds like a very elaborate process and a lot of work. Would love to see a pic of the finished product. In Michigan we have access to crushed limestone for a surface. I would not store hay directly on it but for a hard as cement surface it does a great job. Used in parking lots and truck lots. Once the crushed limestone is down you level it like gravel and compact it. It locks together and the more you drive on it the harder it is.

 

[coondle]

Not very tech competent when it comes to posting pics. The floor looks like a regular concrete floor with a non-slip surface, not smooth polished.
Put a vapour barrier below your crushed limestone and with a 10% cement stabiliser with compaction on laying you will get a very hard stable, no hay shed floor that after opportunity for the compacted limestone to dry out will give a very serviceable waterproof floor. As far as a lot of work , I took it easy except for one day when I laid 2 panels ie 25 feet x 25 feet. Machines did most of the work, front end loader and plate compactor. The most difficult parts were using a 12 foot long screed board to level the material by myself (not having a power screed) and then troweling on the surface slurry of cement.
I had to use the material available locally. Crushed limestone is the material of choice in limestone belts for roadbase etc but I have about 60 miles to 100 miles to get limestone. The area here is in a granite belt.
The granite criusher dust as would limestone sets reasonably hard but the top layer will always dust up and come loose, hence the admixture of cement to stop any dusting up with the mechanical action of tyres.

After my comment about snakes not being an issue, on 30 December when at my hay shed there was a "banded gwardar" (also spelt gwarder) of about 1.2 metres or 4 feet long. Gwardars come as speckled, plain, brown, yellow, and green as well as banded ie bands of the "usual" colour with black bands, each band on "my"snake about 100mm or 4 inches wide in yellow and black with a black head.. According to a range of authorities the Gwardar is about the 9th or 10 th most venomous snake in the world. Australia has 20 or 21 out of the top 25. Venom strength is measured as the amount to kill a mouse, ie the lower the number the stronger the venom. Kept well clear of this one, gwardars accounting for 6 of the last 10 snake deaths in Western Australia. The venom is neurotoxic and attacks the blood. The variety is highly active, prefers retreat but will stand its ground and appears to attack if you are between it and refuge.
Could not find a photograph of a yellow/ black one but a local has published a photo on page 6 of: www.toodyaynats.org.au/.../TNC Newsletter No. 8 AUG
Information on venom strength can be found at: home.iprimus.com.au/foo7snake.html
and at: https://whatcanilearntoday.wordpress.com/tag/venom/

 

[eventer79]

Awwww, I love snakies, even when I lived in Aus, but I totally understand that sticking your hands in the hay pile is a whole 'nother factor there! I came across several tiger snakes riding in Vic and gave them a verrrry wide berth, although they were neat to see, I wouldn't want one in my shed either.

I am always happy to have ours around to eat the rodents, but mine are mostly black rat snakes, black racers, and water snakes, which are all harmless. I get very angry when people here kill them, they just go nutballs (what is sooo scary about an animal with no legs, that can't jump, which can't hurt you and even I, the world's slowest human, can outrun?? - referring to SE US snakes here), so I always try to keep the word out that I will come get snakes, even the venomous ones (biologists have skillz). But I'm afraid it's a bit of a commute from here to W.A. sorry!

 

[coondle]

Get tigers, and dugites here too, another couple on the top 10. I think my gwardar is a girl but will not get up close and personal to find out. Reason I think I have a girl is that it appears to have taken up residence as tracks have been around since spring and males tend to travel about looking for girls. That may be the reason that with these snakes irrespective of incubation temperatures there are ore males than females born, thus providing for more meeting with misadventure by travelling about rather than taking up residence. I would prefer if it moved on but it should not trouble me, it is probably more scared of me than I am of it if that is possible:dance1:
I am disappointed to hear that a little distance stands in the way of you becoming an intercontinental snake buster:laughing:
Would have loved a pic of it sliding across my cement floor so I could post a pic of the floor as well but not to be.

 

[jerry shannon]

Not very tech competent when it comes to posting pics. The floor looks like a regular concrete floor with a non-slip surface, not smooth polished.
Put a vapour barrier below your crushed limestone and with a 10% cement stabiliser with compaction on laying you will get a very hard stable, no hay shed floor that after opportunity for the compacted limestone to dry out will give a very serviceable waterproof floor. As far as a lot of work , I took it easy except for one day when I laid 2 panels ie 25 feet x 25 feet. Machines did most of the work, front end loader and plate compactor. The most difficult parts were using a 12 foot long screed board to level the material by myself (not having a power screed) and then troweling on the surface slurry of cement.
I had to use the material available locally. Crushed limestone is the material of choice in limestone belts for roadbase etc but I have about 60 miles to 100 miles to get limestone. The area here is in a granite belt.
The granite criusher dust as would limestone sets reasonably hard but the top layer will always dust up and come loose, hence the admixture of cement to stop any dusting up with the mechanical action of tyres.

After my comment about snakes not being an issue, on 30 December when at my hay shed there was a "banded gwardar" (also spelt gwarder) of about 1.2 metres or 4 feet long. Gwardars come as speckled, plain, brown, yellow, and green as well as banded ie bands of the "usual" colour with black bands, each band on "my"snake about 100mm or 4 inches wide in yellow and black with a black head.. According to a range of authorities the Gwardar is about the 9th or 10 th most venomous snake in the world. Australia has 20 or 21 out of the top 25. Venom strength is measured as the amount to kill a mouse, ie the lower the number the stronger the venom. Kept well clear of this one, gwardars accounting for 6 of the last 10 snake deaths in Western Australia. The venom is neurotoxic and attacks the blood. The variety is highly active, prefers retreat but will stand its ground and appears to attack if you are between it and refuge.
Could not find a photograph of a yellow/ black one but a local has published a photo on page 6 of: www.toodyaynats.org.au/.../TNC Newsletter No. 8 AUG
Information on venom strength can be found at: home.iprimus.com.au/foo7snake.html
and at: https://whatcanilearntoday.wordpress.com/tag/venom/

I have Australia on my bucket list to visit. The only hold back are all the biting and stinging critters you all have there. I hate spiders, and you have the lovely funnel web,, not a big fan of ants, and you have a species that jump and bite like crazy,, I am not afraid of snakes but your country has some of the most deadly in the world. Right now, the States look good to me. Thank you for the great detail on your hay shed. Using a screed board is tough enough by yourself but a 12' one!!! Cranky's!!

 

[eventer79]

Tell ya' what, you hook me up with Quantas and I'll be there, ROFL!

Jerry, I lived there for a year and did plenty of riding wandering about and I saw ONE snake the entire time, and ONE redback spider. And I was LOOKING for animals (biologists are never off duty, LOL), so don't worry, you don't have to buy a one way ticket.

I did manage to look like an idiot during a field biology course on marsupials and monotremes -- we had set pit-fall traps and upon checking them the next day, I looked in one, was delighted to see a critter, and yelled, "YAY, we caught a salamander!!!!" Whereupon, the professor cleared his throat and said, "Ermm, we don't have salamanders in Australia." After a short pause, I recovered and yelled, "YAY, we caught a lizard!" Eh, can't win 'em all, hahaha.