eee
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Income tax...do away with it....sounds good to me *DELETED*
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Bob_Skurka
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Re: Income tax...do away with it....sounds good to me
Sounds good, BUT . . . the version I heard on one of the news radio stations (either CNN or FOX, but I can't remember which) said that the IRS would still be in business because there is some way to exempt lower income people from paying the national sales tax (possibly via refund?). I've also heard numbers as high as 23% and 27% for the sales tax.
Personally, I'd be happy with it but I'm curious about businesses.
If my business buys a case of $1.00 items for resale, do I pay tax on that case? And then when I sell it, do I collect tax from the retailer who buys it from me? Obviously the retailer is going to collect the tax from the consumer.
If the tax is collected 3 times on an item that $1 item costs me about $1.20 (assuming a 20% rate). Then I resell it and collect another 20% on top of my profit margin. So presume I sell it for $1.30+tax and make a 10-cent profit, I now collect a tax of 26 cents so the retailer buying the item from me pays $1.56 cents. The retailer then marks it up to $2.50 when he sells it. He collects a tax of 50-cents and the consumer pays $3. IF THAT IS HOW IT WORKS, THEN I WANT NO PART OF IT BECAUSE A $1 item has now tripled in price and the total tax would equal 96-cents. HOWEVER, if the tax is only collected at retail, then I would support it. Because the tax would not be compounded.
One more question, does that mean that corporations would not pay tax on any goods that were purchased for RESALE to other businesses?
Lots of details to work out.
Sounds good, BUT . . . the version I heard on one of the news radio stations (either CNN or FOX, but I can't remember which) said that the IRS would still be in business because there is some way to exempt lower income people from paying the national sales tax (possibly via refund?). I've also heard numbers as high as 23% and 27% for the sales tax.
Personally, I'd be happy with it but I'm curious about businesses.
If my business buys a case of $1.00 items for resale, do I pay tax on that case? And then when I sell it, do I collect tax from the retailer who buys it from me? Obviously the retailer is going to collect the tax from the consumer.
If the tax is collected 3 times on an item that $1 item costs me about $1.20 (assuming a 20% rate). Then I resell it and collect another 20% on top of my profit margin. So presume I sell it for $1.30+tax and make a 10-cent profit, I now collect a tax of 26 cents so the retailer buying the item from me pays $1.56 cents. The retailer then marks it up to $2.50 when he sells it. He collects a tax of 50-cents and the consumer pays $3. IF THAT IS HOW IT WORKS, THEN I WANT NO PART OF IT BECAUSE A $1 item has now tripled in price and the total tax would equal 96-cents. HOWEVER, if the tax is only collected at retail, then I would support it. Because the tax would not be compounded.
One more question, does that mean that corporations would not pay tax on any goods that were purchased for RESALE to other businesses?
Lots of details to work out.
Re: Income tax...do away with it....sounds good to me
<font color="blue"> Lots of details to work out </font>
I agree .............
At least they are talking about doing something. I know when President Bush was asked about it a couple of months ago,he said " It would be interesting to look at".
So hopefully something good can come out of this.
<font color="blue"> Lots of details to work out </font>
I agree .............
At least they are talking about doing something. I know when President Bush was asked about it a couple of months ago,he said " It would be interesting to look at".
So hopefully something good can come out of this.
Re: Income tax...do away with it....sounds good to me
I really like the idea, but so far (without details), I can't decide.
Since your post, I went back through my past 3 years of taxes. Loosing the deductions I currently take would definitely change my tax rate %. Haven't crunched the numbers enough where I would end up.
I have a service industry S corp. Who pays the taxes and when? Like Bob, I'm holding judgment until I have better info on how it will affect corporations.
I too have heard that there are several options. How many bills are out there? I heard of one being proposed by John Linder (GA) which had the 23% rate.
I really like the idea, but so far (without details), I can't decide.
Since your post, I went back through my past 3 years of taxes. Loosing the deductions I currently take would definitely change my tax rate %. Haven't crunched the numbers enough where I would end up.
I have a service industry S corp. Who pays the taxes and when? Like Bob, I'm holding judgment until I have better info on how it will affect corporations.
I too have heard that there are several options. How many bills are out there? I heard of one being proposed by John Linder (GA) which had the 23% rate.
Dargo
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Re: Income tax...do away with it....sounds good to me
Okay Bob, you knew I'd weigh in on this one. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Unfortunately the version here has already gone up 2% from what I initially heard; I'd heard 15%. Anyway, I think the current tax structure we have has been modified and changed so many times that it is not only overly complicated, but unfair. What gets me with the current tax program we now have is that the lower "working class" (boy do I hate that term, heck we all work so we all are working class) pay no tax.
At Thanksgiving I generally have about 80 to 100 relatives here, and the discussions always wonder into politics and sports. I have a brother in law who quite frankly hates the current tax schedule we have because he admits that he pays no tax. Zip. Nada. None! By the time he does his tax return, short form, he gets back more than he ever paid in. He doesn't consider himself poor nor does he live in poverty. He just can't stand it knowing that fact and hearing so many people claim that they are "a tax paying American", when in fact, a lot espousing that are not really tax paying. How can you reduce the taxes on a class who pays no tax? All I hear about is reducing the tax for the "poor". I'm sorry, but if you pay no net tax, how can it be reduced??
If the national sales tax would be simply what is implied, I see no way it can be unfair. If it is simply a tax on what you purchase, I see no reason to modify it. I firmly believe in each person pulling their own share. There is no reason for some to get a free ride on others who work hard. Sort of like what my brother in law talked about, he feels that everyone, including himself, should pay their fair share. And, yes, he is quite aware that he can write the government a check and they will take it, but that is not the point. The point is that by providing a free ride, you are training an entire class of people to not better themselves. If they work hard and make money, they lose their free ride. They are basically paid to not work, or to not work more than a minimum amount. By providing the free ride, the government is in fact keeping a class of people from succeeding.
Other taxes that are inherently unfair and wrong are: inheritance tax and property tax. With inheritance tax, the person who earned that money that is going to be inherited by someone else already paid tax on the earnings - the government is simply taxing money that was already taxed. With property tax, you actually never own property - if you quit paying the government tax for the land, they come and take it away from you. Thus you never own property, you rent it from the government.
Okay Bob, you knew I'd weigh in on this one. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Unfortunately the version here has already gone up 2% from what I initially heard; I'd heard 15%. Anyway, I think the current tax structure we have has been modified and changed so many times that it is not only overly complicated, but unfair. What gets me with the current tax program we now have is that the lower "working class" (boy do I hate that term, heck we all work so we all are working class) pay no tax.
At Thanksgiving I generally have about 80 to 100 relatives here, and the discussions always wonder into politics and sports. I have a brother in law who quite frankly hates the current tax schedule we have because he admits that he pays no tax. Zip. Nada. None! By the time he does his tax return, short form, he gets back more than he ever paid in. He doesn't consider himself poor nor does he live in poverty. He just can't stand it knowing that fact and hearing so many people claim that they are "a tax paying American", when in fact, a lot espousing that are not really tax paying. How can you reduce the taxes on a class who pays no tax? All I hear about is reducing the tax for the "poor". I'm sorry, but if you pay no net tax, how can it be reduced??
If the national sales tax would be simply what is implied, I see no way it can be unfair. If it is simply a tax on what you purchase, I see no reason to modify it. I firmly believe in each person pulling their own share. There is no reason for some to get a free ride on others who work hard. Sort of like what my brother in law talked about, he feels that everyone, including himself, should pay their fair share. And, yes, he is quite aware that he can write the government a check and they will take it, but that is not the point. The point is that by providing a free ride, you are training an entire class of people to not better themselves. If they work hard and make money, they lose their free ride. They are basically paid to not work, or to not work more than a minimum amount. By providing the free ride, the government is in fact keeping a class of people from succeeding.
Other taxes that are inherently unfair and wrong are: inheritance tax and property tax. With inheritance tax, the person who earned that money that is going to be inherited by someone else already paid tax on the earnings - the government is simply taxing money that was already taxed. With property tax, you actually never own property - if you quit paying the government tax for the land, they come and take it away from you. Thus you never own property, you rent it from the government.
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Re: Income tax...do away with it....sounds good to me
<font color="blue"> the IRS would still be in business because there is some way to exempt lower income people from paying the national sales tax (possibly via refund?). I've also heard numbers as high as 23% and 27% for the sales tax.
</font>
Ahh - they are already opening the door for exemptions - so much for simplifying the tax code...
Economists generally label sales taxes as "regressive", The poor and middle class will shoulder more of the burden with a sales tax than an income tax. Think about it - if you're making $10,000 a year, a new pickup is 2-3X your income. If you're making $100,000 a year it is 20-30%. If you're making $1,000,000 a year it is only 2-3%.
The "rich" didn't get rich by spending money /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif. The really rich (Bill Gates etc.) pay a relatively huge portion of taxes.
I'd like to see the "post card" tax return - you simply report your earnings and pay your bill. No kickbacks for owning a home, having a kid etc. It would still have progressive tax brackets - ie if you make more, you pay more.
What I'd really like to see is the government getting back to basic infastructure - roads, schools, national security etc. Less "encouraging" us to be better people via certain tax breaks etc. - Oops I'm starting to drift into political discussions.... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
I think any discussion in congress on tax reform is a good thing - it will heighten awareness.
<font color="blue"> the IRS would still be in business because there is some way to exempt lower income people from paying the national sales tax (possibly via refund?). I've also heard numbers as high as 23% and 27% for the sales tax.
</font>
Ahh - they are already opening the door for exemptions - so much for simplifying the tax code...
Economists generally label sales taxes as "regressive", The poor and middle class will shoulder more of the burden with a sales tax than an income tax. Think about it - if you're making $10,000 a year, a new pickup is 2-3X your income. If you're making $100,000 a year it is 20-30%. If you're making $1,000,000 a year it is only 2-3%.
The "rich" didn't get rich by spending money /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif. The really rich (Bill Gates etc.) pay a relatively huge portion of taxes.
I'd like to see the "post card" tax return - you simply report your earnings and pay your bill. No kickbacks for owning a home, having a kid etc. It would still have progressive tax brackets - ie if you make more, you pay more.
What I'd really like to see is the government getting back to basic infastructure - roads, schools, national security etc. Less "encouraging" us to be better people via certain tax breaks etc. - Oops I'm starting to drift into political discussions.... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
I think any discussion in congress on tax reform is a good thing - it will heighten awareness.
reb
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Re: Income tax...do away with it....sounds good to me
That sounds like a good idea, if applied 40 years ago. Many retirees, like me, are living on money on which we have already paid income tax. Fairly addressing this situation will require some kind of exception, giving the IRS something to do. Given the talent our government has shown so far, I doubt that the idea will result in any net simplification of our tax situation.
That sounds like a good idea, if applied 40 years ago. Many retirees, like me, are living on money on which we have already paid income tax. Fairly addressing this situation will require some kind of exception, giving the IRS something to do. Given the talent our government has shown so far, I doubt that the idea will result in any net simplification of our tax situation.
Bob_Skurka
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Re: Income tax...do away with it....sounds good to me
As it is written now, the national sales tax would be 23%.
Here is an exerpt from Fox news:
Under Linder's plan, the national sales tax would be set at 23 percent, which he claims would be enough to replace the funds that the canceled payroll tax would have raised. The national sales tax would be in addition to the average 6.2 percent state sales tax that people already pay.
Linder, a six-term representative, dismisses the central criticism of a national sales tax — that it would disproportionately tax the poor — by saying they would be exempted. But critics say Linder's plan is a little too neat, that his math does not add up and that it would be impossible to exempt the poor and still avoid having a behemoth agency like the IRS.
Apparently the 50 individual states would be responsible for administering the "prebates" according to the articals I dug up. So it seems that while the IRS may be largely dismantled, there state departments of revenue might grow considerably to admister the prebates.
On the other hand, it looks like corporate income taxes would be eliminated. If that was that case, I believe that it would be very beneficial for foreign companies to locate their facilities here in the US. It would probably be a big boost to labor in general and manufacturing and assembly jobs. It would also very likely make the US a haven for foreign investment. All of that sure sounds good to me.
But the devil is in the details and the road to **** has been paved with the unintended consequences of good intentions.
As it is written now, the national sales tax would be 23%.
Here is an exerpt from Fox news:
Under Linder's plan, the national sales tax would be set at 23 percent, which he claims would be enough to replace the funds that the canceled payroll tax would have raised. The national sales tax would be in addition to the average 6.2 percent state sales tax that people already pay.
Linder, a six-term representative, dismisses the central criticism of a national sales tax — that it would disproportionately tax the poor — by saying they would be exempted. But critics say Linder's plan is a little too neat, that his math does not add up and that it would be impossible to exempt the poor and still avoid having a behemoth agency like the IRS.
Apparently the 50 individual states would be responsible for administering the "prebates" according to the articals I dug up. So it seems that while the IRS may be largely dismantled, there state departments of revenue might grow considerably to admister the prebates.
On the other hand, it looks like corporate income taxes would be eliminated. If that was that case, I believe that it would be very beneficial for foreign companies to locate their facilities here in the US. It would probably be a big boost to labor in general and manufacturing and assembly jobs. It would also very likely make the US a haven for foreign investment. All of that sure sounds good to me.
But the devil is in the details and the road to **** has been paved with the unintended consequences of good intentions.
Dargo
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Re: Income tax...do away with it....sounds good to me
Yeesh! 23% base, before other add fees that will come, plus 6 to 8% state tax on top of that. I'm beginning to fall out of that club of supporters! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Yeesh! 23% base, before other add fees that will come, plus 6 to 8% state tax on top of that. I'm beginning to fall out of that club of supporters! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Bob_Skurka
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Re: Income tax...do away with it....sounds good to me
But, all your spending up to the government's determined "poverty line" for you family would be tax free for ALL taxpayers.
And there is no talk about this substituting for state income, excise, or sales taxes. So in my mind, those are all the same under a new federal program. The new sales tax would simply substitute for the current one.
I have not been able to figure out if tax is paid on SERVICES or just GOODS purchased.
But, all your spending up to the government's determined "poverty line" for you family would be tax free for ALL taxpayers.
And there is no talk about this substituting for state income, excise, or sales taxes. So in my mind, those are all the same under a new federal program. The new sales tax would simply substitute for the current one.
I have not been able to figure out if tax is paid on SERVICES or just GOODS purchased.
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