Info on making offer on land not for sale???

   / Info on making offer on land not for sale??? #11  
The best way to find out if it is for sale is to stop over and introduce yourself to them. Tell them who you are and what you are looking to do with it, farm it, etc. I would not talk prices unless I knew what it was worth first. I would go by what the value of open land is in the area.
 
   / Info on making offer on land not for sale??? #12  
Ditto, Jim...

It often does work exactly that way... Years ago we'd bought a piece of old farmstead (14acres I think) and we were working on it with the tractor pushing brush piles. A neighbor pulls up on his tractor (allis for the curious/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif) and he and Dad start visiting. Weather, land, the widow woman that we bought it from and on and on.... Near the end, Dad asked if the guy would be interested in selling. "Not really." "Let me know if you change your mind." 3-4 years go by, usually with visiting when we were there. Dad never brought it up again... Out of the blue one day, guy calls and wants to sell... Today... We couldn't make his price and counteroffered what we could do. He took it...

We later found out from the neighbors he took one too many trips to the Tunica Casnios and had to settle some debts... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

As already said, put the bug in their ear and be patient...
 
   / Info on making offer on land not for sale??? #13  
There is one other way that won't cost you anything up front but will cost you a commission in the end. Many moons ago, I was a real estate broker. I handled several purchases for clients in your situation. As a professional, I knew how to present an offer, or even an offer to make an offer, better than most of the clients. I was pretty good at "reading" the potential seller, and knew what to tell them qualm their fears.

Real estate agents are like tort lawyers, usually willing to perform this kind of service for no money up front in the hope of getting a commission. Of course, if the prosective seller had to pay the commission, they wouldn't be very likely to cooperate. So, as the buyer, you'll have to pony up the agreed fee, in addition to the purchase price, if the real estate agent comes through for you. Because the real estate agent didn't have to advertise or do any marketing, the commission should be less than the going rate, probably about half. In our area, vacant land carries a normal commission of 10%, so 5% would be fair.

There's one critical thing you have to consider -- you should have some serious confidence and faith that the real estate agent can do a better job than you. Get an agent who's a dummy, and he'll lose you the property you otherwise might have gotten.

Now then, how would an agent go about it? Could you learn anything from the tactics? Yep. The first thing the agent will do is research the property and the owner -- see what else they own, when they bought the subject property, how much they paid for it, and whether they're "players" -- have recently bought any property. It would also be nice to know if they've sold any, but that's tougher to find out. That research will also turn up any co-owners that might have a say, such as relatives, partners, etc. It's also possible to see if a mortgage is recorded against the property. It would also be nice to know something about them personally, although the information can usually only be gotten by talking to friends or neighbors -- do they have a child or grandchild who's heading for college and needs money? A big wedding for their daughter coming up? Any illness? Infirmity? Getting ready to retire? Are they making any money from the property? How might they invest the proceeds? Are they local or out of state? (that's always a big question here in Florida). Some of these answers are easy; some are tough. That's part of how the pro earns their commission.

Research the market values and be prepared to name a price. Be ready with the terms. You will likely have to forget many normal contingencies; after all, it's you who wants to buy, so you should be willing to buy no matter what. Also, be prepared to pick up all of the closing costs -- the prospective seller should know that the amount named is what they will actually be getting. You can't expect them to agree to sell something they were thinking about keeping, and then ask them to pay for title insurance, for example. Pay the costs yourself. You can adjust your offer accordingly, but the normal buyer/seller arrangement is upside down in this case.

I've had more than one prospective seller refuse to sell because they didn't want any more income that year for tax reasons. I got them to agree by structuring the offer in such a way, by an installment sale or an exchange, that there tax implications were reduced or eliminated.

I'm sure I can think of some other stuff, but I'm a little too long-winded tonight... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
   / Info on making offer on land not for sale??? #14  
Don,
Did you say one time you were a consultant for the Republican party in Florida ???
 
   / Info on making offer on land not for sale??? #15  
If the owner is undecided about putting his properrty up for sale, emphasis whatever you can to show that your offer may be more attractive than most offers he might get later when he decides to sell. If someone came to me like that and said they would pay appraised value, they had the money, and there would be no 5 or 10 % skimmed of the top, I'd be more interested. Otherwise, later I may be suffering a parade of tire kickers, low ballers and people that that need to sell their other place first.
 
   / Info on making offer on land not for sale??? #16  
DISCLAIMER: I am a licensed Texas real estate agent.

I am not going to recommend that you contact a real estate agent or attorney first.

Several people have given you good advice about approaching the neighbor casually and I agree with them as long as you feel the neighbor is approachable.

One scenario where having a real estate agent talk to them first is if you think they may demand a premium price because they know the land is worth more to you than it would be to someone else. For instance, if the land would give you easier access to a highway from your property, or you have them surrounded on 3 sides and need their property to "square up" your land, the land they have used to belong to your family and you want it back for sentimental reasons, etc. In a case like this the agent can present an offer as a "Trustee" and your name would be left out of it.

If none of the above paragraph applies then approach them yourself but do not express any sense of urgency. Be very casual. "If you ever decide to sell your land I would be interested", not "I want to buy your land".

If the land is not being used you could offer to lease it for a while provided it is usable for your purposes without a lot of work. You don't want to improve their property for them, that would drive up the sale price later on.

If they don't want to sell now you could offer to pay them for "First right of refusal". That means you would pay them $X and have a contract drawn up that says that if they ever decide to sell they can put it on the open market. When they get an acceptable offer then they have to come to you and offer to sell it to you for the same amount. At that point you can either buy it or, if the price is more than you are willing to pay, you can pass on it and the other buyer gets it.

If they are older folks who want to keep it for the rest of their life but don't want to pass it on to someone in particular you could offer to buy it on a "Life Estate" basis. That means you pay them for the land but they get to retain possession of the land until they die or decide to move on at which point you then gain possession. This can be useful if they need to money to supplement their retirement income but don't want to give up the land.

As someone suggested, if they are in a tax bracket where they would be hit hard by the monetary gain no the sale you could offer to buy it on an installment purchase. This would also be a good way for them to sell it if they are financially set and are going to put the sale proceeds in savings. At todays interest rates they will do well to get 3% for the savings. You can offer 6% interest and they will realize a better return on their savings.

There are more options to buying property than an outright cash (or third party financing) sale.

In any case, if they agree to sell you can pay a real estate agent to write up the formal contract. Every time I have seen an attorney try to write a sale contract for real estate they got it so complicated that the seller would often refuse the offer because of all the legalese and terms the attorney would put in.

Real estate agents have standard forms that are written by their state association lawyers that are much more "user friendly" and easier for both buyer and seller to understand.

Lawyers do not have access to information about other recent land sales in the area but real estate agents do have access to that information. This information is critical in deciding if the price is fair or not.

Whatever you do let me give you some very important advice: NEVER, EVER, buy any property without getting a title policy! I have seen sales where the buyer ended up losing the property (and the money they paid for it) later because of a "cloud" (encumbrance) on the title. There are also case where the buyer had to pay for the property twice, first to the seller and later to some lien holder who they didn't know about when they bought it. A title policy is an insurance policy that will pay you up to the amount you paid for the property if the title is not clear even if the encumbrance doesn't show up until years later. Since insurance companies don't like to pay off they research the title history to be sure there are no liens or other problems.

Have the property surveyed before you close the sale. Lots of fences are built that are not on the property lines. You may think you are buying 14 acres but only a licensed surveyor can tell you how much land you are really getting and exactly where it is located. That's why you will always see land advertised by agents as "14 acres +/-" or "14 acres more or less". Nobody knows exactly if it is really 14 acres or not until it is surveyed.

I have seen lots of problems with titles, surveys, etc. For the most part they are easily cured (solved) as long as you use the right professionals.

BTW, real estate fees are negotiable. I have often written sales contracts for a "fixed fee" when the buyer and seller had already worked out the details of the sale. I based my fee on the amount of work they wanted me to do. Be specific about what services you want the agent to perform. Do you want them to just write the sales contract or do you want them to also review all the closing documents including the survey? Do you want them to attend the closing, etc.?

I wish we could all still do business on a handshake but we can no longer do that. For instance, I wanted to buy some land around my place. The seller was willing but his daughter decided she "might" want to build a home on that land someday. Fat chance, she lives 1,500 miles from the land and to my knowledge has never even seen it. In this case I believe she just didn't want him to sell it and spend the money. She wanted to wait until he died so she could inherit it and then sell it and get the money for herself. Kids can be awfully greedy when it comes to inheritance, even at the expense of their own parents.

Sorry this is so long, but life has gotten awfully complicated in the 59 years I have lived on this planet.

Bill Tolle
Kubota B7510 w/FEL and 3.2 hours on the meter!
 
   / Info on making offer on land not for sale???
  • Thread Starter
#17  
I guess you talked me into just going and talking with them.

The only problem is that beenthere hit the nail on the head about the chance of an "auction type game". I started to reply with a post about our neighbor, but got so aggrevated that I couldn't finish it. To make a long story short, I have a neighbor that don't work whose parents has more money than they could ever spend. They have already bought two adjoining farms that I "dreamed" of owning growing up. All the land is doing now is sitting and growing up. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif Don't get me wrong, he seems like a nice guy, but I don't have an endless supply of money to use like him to buy the land. My only hope is that the one of the owners I'd be buying from helped my parents buy the farm we currently have 30+ years ago.

Would it be "OK" to just verbally ask if they are not interested to let me know within 30 days so that I can pursue the other property??????? That's not to say that I wouldn't be interested in his land a few years later.
 
   / Info on making offer on land not for sale??? #18  
Then when you talk to them tell them why you want to buy their land. If you tell them you want to expand your property and maintain it like a garden they might be willing to sell it to you instead of selling it to someone else who only wants it as an investment for a future development. Whats the worse that can happen? If they are going to sell someday your best chance is to be the first in line.
 
   / Info on making offer on land not for sale??? #19  
<font color="blue">Don,
Did you say one time you were a consultant for the Republican party in Florida ??? </font>

Not sure I get the joke, but I can say I wish I was a consultant -- I'd tell them what to do....
twisted.gif
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / Info on making offer on land not for sale??? #20  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> Not sure I get the joke, but I can say I wish I was a consultant -- I'd tell them what to do.... </font> )</font>

Don,
I just had to ask you that ( LOL ) I just wanted to hear your response..... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
 
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