International 300 steering geometry problems...

[LD1]

Well, I think I am going to shorten the pitman arms unless someone speaks up in the next 15 minutes or so.

From what I could find, The short ones are supposed to be 8-7/16" and they went to the 11" ones @ serial 26000 something, but they also made the spindle linkage (arm) longer as well.

This might explain why it seems my gearbox has TOO much travel and am hitting the stops on the axles too soon.

I did some mock ups by holding the draglink about 2" higher up on the pitman arm (to give the draglink less overall travel), and I think this is indeed my issue. At somepoint, it hink someone changed the steering gearbox or at least the pitman arms. Cause my tractor is serial 13000 something.

 

[xtn]

I got it now. Seems to me that you need either longer spindle arms, or a shorter pitman arm.

Alternate solution: Either grind down the stops at the spindles, or fab some stops for the pitman arm that prevent the spindles from getting all the way to their stops. When the tractor is up in the air you ought to be able to test both left and right steering maximums along with full axle pivot each way to determine the max amount of steering input available without triggering this condition. But I can think of a possible negative going with such an alternate solution: Full steering input while driving and then one or both tires hit a curb or log or whatever, and since the spindle's themselves aren't at full stop, they still have room to turn more. But since your pitman arm is stopped, it's going to stress the tie rods, drag link and joints.

So best to get the ratio of pitman arm to spindle arms correct. If you go TOO short on the pitman arm, you could have the same problem as outlined above with my "alternate solution." Is it a cast iron piece, or is it some flat stock that you could just drill a new hole in?

Does it have idler arm(s) as a similar setup in a car would have? If you change the length of the pitman arm would you have to change the idler arm(s) to match?

xtn

 

[xtn]

Sorry I was typing that before I realized you had posted again. I think you're on the right track. I suggest leaving the condition slightly, such that it could jerk the steering wheel an inch (but not half a turn!). If you go past eliminating the condition entirely, then you have the problem condition I outlined previously: Force at the tires could really stress the links/rods/joints.

xtn

 

[LD1]

ITs a cast piece. Not sure if cast iron or cast steel til I put a grinder to it.

I called bates corp in indiana. He is gonna do some checking, but here is what I found out so far....

The pitman arms are the longer ones that are 11", that werent supposed to be used on the 300 until AFTER serial 26xxx, OR if it had power steering. They were however used on the 350.

The spindle arms are ALSO the longer ones, that again, were only supposed to be used in conjunction with the 11" pitman arms on the PS models, 350's, or after serial 26xxx.

So....I was hoping it was as simple as having short arms up front and long ones on the steeringbox, but that isnt the case. So I dont know why this isnt working??? These arms are supposed to work together.

I have also come to the conclusion that the steering box is from a 350. When I had it appart, There were 3 teeth on the sector shaft that is driven by the worm (the one that drives the left tire), and 4 teeth on the right side shaft.

According to IH parts diagram, the 300 box had 4 teeth on the driven shaft, and the 350 had 3 like I have.

I thought about grinding the stops, to alleviate the bind, the the wheels already turn far enough. almost too far IMO. I am gonna wait (I think) til bates calls back and see what they say, but I think my solution to shorten the pitman arms is likely what I am gonna do.

I wish I knew someone that had a 300u or 350u that I could look at first hand though...

 

[300UGUY]

Did you post on the farmall board on ytmag? Those folks know IH, I think it gets a lot more traffic than redpower, and some guys post in both places. I looked at the jackson power steering for mine, but I didn't want to spend that much. With a loader on it, it would pick up 3K!! But you couldn't turn for sxxxt. I did break one of those spindles off, and bought replacements.

 

[LD1]

Do you have any old pics of yours from the side? Its easy to see if it has short or long pitmans.

And do you remember the length of the spindle arm you got

 

[300UGUY]

I broke the spindle itself. These old girls weren't really designed for loaders, especially heavy modern ones. It will handle like a sports car with no loader and a bushhog on the back. Without ps, a loader on it is useless. I don't have any pics, I got rid of the ute about 4 years ago. I will call about and find the guys name, he was going to part it out, he is a jockey, he really wanted it for the loader and tires.

 

[LD1]

Well, I may just call it a day. I dont want to cut up the pitman arms jsut yet. I did post on ytmag, and still havent been approved by a moderator to post on red power yet:mur"


I dont know if it is something as stupid as me overthinking it. And with it out in the field and weight on the axles/tires, things would be well???

But it just dont seem right sitting on the jackstand in the shop. When turning right for example, the left tierod is pulling back and the right one is pushing. Once the stops are hit, you can keep turning the wheel and it forces the right side (the one pushing) to push the axle down, and the left tierod to pull the axle up.

So when turning hard right, near the end of steering travel, the right tire is pushed down and left pulled up til there is almost no pivot of the axle left. And vice versa when turning right. It binds everything up.

Now I knoe in the field, this wouldnt happen, cause you cant turn the steering wheel hard enough to make the axle pivot. But it worries me that you can turn it far enough to hit the stops and then what happens if it does try to pivot???? Either break something or jerk the wheel out of your hand??

 

[300UGUY]

All these old girls will jerk the wheel around. Some folks have had fingers broken, especially with spinner knobs hitting them.

Btw, "call it a day", you have been doing enough to make me tired!!!

 

[LD1]

HAvent really got much done today actually. Except trying to figure out this steering, which isnt very productive.

I was gonna start re-assembling some of the hydraulics, But I am out of -115 o-rings in my kit, so that went on hold.

Ordered a new kit, I was getting low on o-rings anyway. $15 for 400+ pieces. I need 9 -115 rings, and there are 13 in the kit:thumbsup: